South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry • Hacker News Board

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#161

Post by commoner » Sat, May 18, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #124

pojntfx wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Microsoft built a huge local branch there and as a result they've moved back into the dark abyss that is proprietary, non-free software.

That is the conspiracy theory that some are telling themselves: that this is THE reason why Munich moved away. AS IF! Here's something more likely: Munich was ready to move back because the project was expensive to maintain, cumbersome in practice, killed productivity and was generally unpopular with the end-users, and Microsoft's new branch was just a cherry on top.

Microsoft made major political moves after LiMux adoption began. They relocated their German headquarters to Munich, and a new mayor (Dieter Reiter) was elected after the Microsoft employees moved to Munich. Reiter initiated the reversal from LiMux to Windows, while the previous mayor (Christian Ude) refused to do so despite in-person appeals from Steve Ballmer.

You might not like this line of argument, but it's not a "conspiracy theory" since it's well-supported. It's disingenuous to completely dismiss the role of political influence on a government decision.

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/linux-in-munich-no-comp...

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#162

Post by loup-vaillant » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

DataWorker wrote: post #147

microtonal wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TCO was also a big part of the marketing campaign of Microsoft against Linux in the late 90ies, early 00s. A big difference compared to one or two decades ago is that a lot of domain-specific services have moved to web applications. So, there are probably a lot of machines out there that are just glorified web browsing machines. Also, the popularity of iOS and Android have made more applications cross-platform. Of co…

I’ve switched to libreoffice from excel and find it totally viable as an excel replacement except for lack of vba support, but it has its own scripting language so even that isn’t a deal breaker. It’s just so much faster and less bloated than today’s excel.

For most users, "replacement" mean it can open and edit Microsoft's documents perfectly. For some users, it even means the GUI is just about the same so they don't feel lost.

By that criteria (which are real criteria from real people), the only viable replacement for Microsoft Office, is the next version of Microsoft Office.

The only way to break out of this, I think, is for governments to forbid themselves to use proprietary software that was not developed on their own soil. Because let's face it, it's not really about money (especially not about short term money). It's more about national security, sovereignty, and freedom.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#163

Post by kazinator » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:16 PM UTC

"Let's switch to something developed under the free world's values that we violently repress here, and whose originators we would likely have jailed had they started their projects here."

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#164

Post by wongmjane » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #163

"Let's switch to something developed under the free world's values that we violently repress here, and whose originators we would likely have jailed had they started their projects here."

I think we are talking about South Korean government, not North Korea...

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#165

Post by 0xb100db1ade » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #163

"Let's switch to something developed under the free world's values that we violently repress here, and whose originators we would likely have jailed had they started their projects here."

Did you mean to say that about North Korea, not South Korea?

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#166

Post by techntoke » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

hobs wrote: post #160

techntoke wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, Microsoft has a lot of enterprise customers and when their first user experience to Linux is WSL they are immediately turned off and unable to even take it seriously. I can at least take Android and ChromeOS serious enough to see it being viable for most desktop users and small businesses. Android, along with G Suite, is great for mobile enterprise management.

Then why did Microsoft just recently patch it and make it better? (WSL)

Have you used the new unreleased version yet?

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#167

Post by oblio » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

techntoke wrote: post #117

0815test wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agreed, yet their goal is to build their own crappy version so that people think Linux sucks, when in reality it is still MS. Can't do it, Google owns that business model. I mean, they managed to do that twice ? Must have taken them some serious effort!

Not really, Microsoft has a lot of enterprise customers and when their first user experience to Linux is WSL they are immediately turned off and unable to even take it seriously. I can at least take Android and ChromeOS serious enough to see it being viable for most desktop users and small businesses. Android, along with G Suite, is great for mobile enterprise management.

Have you seen the same enterprise users try a Linux distro? I can assure you that the reaction is not better...

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#168

Post by oblio » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

pojntfx wrote: post #118

macspoofing wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not why Munich moved back to Windows. They moved back because supporting Linux workstations for their workforce was hard and expensive. It wasn't very popular with the end-users either.

Not true. Microsoft built a huge local branch there and as a result they've moved back into the dark abyss that is proprietary, non-free software.

You may dislike it, but calling it a "dark abyss" is pushing it. Probably 95% of people in tech get a paycheck due to non-free software.

And yes, Googlers & co., that includes you, even if the small lib you released is Open Source, the magic sauce powering Page Rank, Analytics, AdWords and such isn't.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#169

Post by detaro » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC

techntoke wrote: post #117

0815test wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Agreed, yet their goal is to build their own crappy version so that people think Linux sucks, when in reality it is still MS. Can't do it, Google owns that business model. I mean, they managed to do that twice ? Must have taken them some serious effort!

Not really, Microsoft has a lot of enterprise customers and when their first user experience to Linux is WSL they are immediately turned off and unable to even take it seriously. I can at least take Android and ChromeOS serious enough to see it being viable for most desktop users and small businesses. Android, along with G Suite, is great for mobile enterprise management.

The scenario of someone not knowing Linux at all but then using WSL seems fairly unlikely compared to someone knowing Linux and using it to get a Linux environment on a Windows box.

Re: South Korean government to switch to Linux: ministry

#170

Post by klingonopera » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

commoner wrote: post #161

macspoofing wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the conspiracy theory that some are telling themselves: that this is THE reason why Munich moved away. AS IF! Here's something more likely: Munich was ready to move back because the project was expensive to maintain, cumbersome in practice, killed productivity and was generally unpopular with the end-users, and Microsoft's new branch was just a cherry on top.

Microsoft made major political moves after LiMux adoption began. They relocated their German headquarters to Munich, and a new mayor (Dieter Reiter) was elected after the Microsoft employees moved to Munich. Reiter initiated the reversal from LiMux to Windows, while the previous mayor (Christian Ude) refused to do so despite in-person appeals from Steve Ballmer. You might not like this line of argument, but it's not…

"There is the allegation that you as former head of the department of economy have made a deal with Microsoft to move its headquarter to Munich and in exchange you now deliver the return to their products. Does this connection exist?" - "No, definitely not."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBRh2G29NNE