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“Python's batteries are leaking”

pyfound.blogspot.com

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Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#11

Post by mlevental »

pavlov wrote: post #8
axaxs wrote: post #2

Why, time and time again, does Guido seem incapable of reasonable debate, or ideas that challenge his own? It's completely rude to interrupt a presenter with 'what is your point?' Years ago I was in contact with the author of Nuitka, who was very excited to share his work thus far. During his presentation, Guido kept huffing and making snide comments under his breath. All because he disagrees with the premise behind…

Maybe he’s simply burnt out? The pressure of being in charge of something as big as Python must be intense. People make demands on his time and expect the “benevolent dictator” to cunningly solve everything like a modern day Salomon. I know he gave up the title, but as he personifies Python, I imagine the influx of requests for his attention may not have subsided much.

how is that an excuse for being uncivil? if you're burnt out then don't attend the talk? simple.

Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#13

Post by agumonkey »

pavlov wrote: post #8
axaxs wrote: post #2

Why, time and time again, does Guido seem incapable of reasonable debate, or ideas that challenge his own? It's completely rude to interrupt a presenter with 'what is your point?' Years ago I was in contact with the author of Nuitka, who was very excited to share his work thus far. During his presentation, Guido kept huffing and making snide comments under his breath. All because he disagrees with the premise behind…

Maybe he’s simply burnt out? The pressure of being in charge of something as big as Python must be intense. People make demands on his time and expect the “benevolent dictator” to cunningly solve everything like a modern day Salomon. I know he gave up the title, but as he personifies Python, I imagine the influx of requests for his attention may not have subsided much.

Was he like that before ? some say he was always balanced even when python3 came out.

let's hope everything settles smoothly :)

Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#14

Post by nurettin »

It took me an hour to create a program that tails some logs and alerts when it doesn't receive any logs for a given amount of time. For this task I did not even need to leave the asyncio module. It lets you create subprocesses and execute call_later on the event loop in order to simulate a heartbeat while reading the output of tail at the same time.

Did asyncio module feel bloated? It certainly did. It seems like every module from subprocess to networking to io is crammed into it.

On the other hand, did it get the job done without resorting to any packages or threading? Yep, and that is pretty powerful and rare.

Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#15

Post by kentm »

I was rather shocked to find that python didn’t have a full-featured crypto library included in its standard lib. The alternatives all ended up being unmaintained or maintained by small groups (which makes trust in the soundness difficult). I tapped our security team, who were in disbelief, but ultimately they gave up to and I wrote the software in go instead.

Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#16

Post by jteppinette »

IMO, Golang does the best job of maintaining a high quality standard library. I disagree that modules should be moved into the external package ecosystem. However, Go isn't preinstalled on most systems like Python.

I have to develop enterprise software that runs across a wide range of platforms, and being able to take advantage of the fact that Python is pre-installed on all of these systems with its standard library is a godsend.

Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#17

Post by pavlov »

mlevental wrote: post #11
pavlov wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he’s simply burnt out? The pressure of being in charge of something as big as Python must be intense. People make demands on his time and expect the “benevolent dictator” to cunningly solve everything like a modern day Salomon. I know he gave up the title, but as he personifies Python, I imagine the influx of requests for his attention may not have subsided much.

how is that an excuse for being uncivil? if you're burnt out then don't attend the talk? simple.

From my own past experience with depression, it’s not as simple as “I’ll just stop doing all the things that have kept me in motion until now.”

This is not meant to speculate on van Rossum’s health, just trying to point out that there are situations where apparent rudeness may be out of the person’s immediate control.

Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#18

Post by tptacek »

kentm wrote: post #15

I was rather shocked to find that python didn’t have a full-featured crypto library included in its standard lib. The alternatives all ended up being unmaintained or maintained by small groups (which makes trust in the soundness difficult). I tapped our security team, who were in disbelief, but ultimately they gave up to and I wrote the software in go instead.

You want pyca/cryptography. The last thing in the world you want is a standard crypto library that no experts are enthusiastic about maintaining. Golang had an unfair advantage here, because the language team included cryptography engineers. It would be weird if most languages had the same kind of crypto in their stdlibs.

I think there is in general nothing wrong with a language ecosystem where key parts of the whole platform are in well-maintained third-party libraries rather than the standard library. Which is also something Amber Brown is saying here.

Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#19

Post by nerdwaller »

jteppinette wrote: post #16

IMO, Golang does the best job of maintaining a high quality standard library. I disagree that modules should be moved into the external package ecosystem. However, Go isn't preinstalled on most systems like Python. I have to develop enterprise software that runs across a wide range of platforms, and being able to take advantage of the fact that Python is pre-installed on all of these systems with its standard library…

It’ll be interesting to see how Go (Rust, and other new languages) evolve and if they can avoid some level of package decay when they reach the age of Python, Java, etc.

Re: “Python's batteries are leaking”

#20

Post by new4thaccount »

resoluteteeth wrote: post #9

When I first used python like 20 years ago I was blown away by how much functionality was blown in, and it can be annoying using languages where even the most basic functionality involves downloading 50 packages from the internet, but on the other hand the standard library does seem to be a mess now.

Yea. I'm using Rust at the moment for fun and the amount of things not in the standard library is crazy to me. What? There is no built-in dictionary? What do I use instead and where is it?

Edit: based off of all the replies below, everyone understands the validity of what I'm trying to say, but also have fortunately pointed out my admittedly grevious error of not knowing you can just import hashmap from stdlib. The extra step is pretty minimal and not a problem. I'm hoping this is covered in the Rust book.

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