Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#51

Post by bartread » Sat, May 18, 2019, 9:58 AM UTC

bitL wrote: post #10

- "Hey, I worked at FAANG or better, creating latest super-duper tech you use daily, was featured on TV, got multiple awards etc." - "Let's see if you can do Fizz Buzz!"

> - "Let's see if you can do Fizz Buzz!"

Yes, exactly. I'd like to verify that you can string a few lines of code together to solve a trivially simple problem. This is not an unreasonable ask, and I really don't care how impressive your CV is. If you can't solve fizzbuzz you're not going to be able to solve any of the much more complicated problems we wrestle with on a day to day basis.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#52

Post by GordonS » Sat, May 18, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

MayeulC wrote: post #41

npstr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with using nano for that?

> It's everywhere. It almost litterally is. Even busybox contains a vi clone. While I have encountered more systems without nano nor Emacs than I can remember. Plus, there is no excuse for learning the basic set of commands: i,ESC,x,u, and maybe navigating with the letters (which I'm not proficient at).

I only have to edit a file on Linux once every couple of months of so - I tired of forgetting how to exit vi (or enter/exit edit mode, save the file... just about anything really), so started installing nano as the first thing I do on any system. Nano is so much more obvious than vi.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#53

Post by notimetorelax » Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:00 AM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #39

> He reasoned through the problem, wrote the code, it ran perfectly the first time. I hired him. I get the overall sentiment, but come on, "I hired him" sounds like self-absorbed anecdata - so this post is about how to quickly appeal to some manager dude on the interwebs? A more useful metric would be, did this hire survive the first two years, and what do the people around him have to say about his performance. > It…

When reading the article I was ready to accept some of practical advice, but lack of empathy makes me not want to listen to the author.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#54

Post by GordonS » Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:00 AM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #52

MayeulC wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's everywhere. It almost litterally is. Even busybox contains a vi clone. While I have encountered more systems without nano nor Emacs than I can remember. Plus, there is no excuse for learning the basic set of commands: i,ESC,x,u, and maybe navigating with the letters (which I'm not proficient at).

I only have to edit a file on Linux once every couple of months of so - I tired of forgetting how to exit vi (or enter/exit edit mode, save the file... just about anything really), so started installing nano as the first thing I do on any system. Nano is so much more obvious than vi.

Also, there's a reason why there are so many "can't quit vi" memes.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#55

Post by trickstra » Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:01 AM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #36

trickstra wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are usually agency interviewers or HR people. Sure, I'd definitely take that into account if this was interview with IT lead, but you don't get to that before going through this programming task with some HR guy. They will then pass your solution to some devs for assessment, because they don't understand it. But they are the gatekeepers.

Fair enough. I haven't run into that, probably because I interviewed with smaller companies. I have no tips on solving that problem.

Appreciated. I don't have a real solution either, that's why it's so infuriating. I just try to keep my skills up-to-date and my CV shiny to have more choices. Then I can at least pick what I like, and safely reject companies which have this silly way of interviewing, hoping they would learn. But looking at all the spam I'm getting on linkedin, it seems like I would run into such problem in 90% of the cases.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#56

Post by _pmf_ » Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:02 AM UTC

The thing is that the candidate does not know if the interviewer falls into the pragmatic or dogmatic camp. I've absolutely had cases where the interviewers insisted that the applicant was proficient in a specific compiler toolchain + hardware debugger setup (for pretty generic embedded ARM where skills transfer nicely from other commerical ARM ecosystems), and cases where the interviewer gets hung up on coding style.

So, yes, I'll fiddle with the editor, because I'm not a fucking mind reader.

Besides, putting the candidate into gedit and then talking about debuggers is a bit inconsistent. If you put me into this situation, I'll of course use printf() debugging, whereas in a familiar environment I'd use the debugger.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#57

Post by shearskill » Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:02 AM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #37

> I brought in a guy that hadn’t programmed professionally in years, in fact he didn’t even have programming on the first page of his resume. However, he had been practicing while looking for a job and he rocked my programming interview. He reasoned through the problem, wrote the code, it ran perfectly the first time. I hired him. And yet, I have a computer science master with an 8.1 (equivalent to a 4.0 GPA) and com…

I was just in the rabbit hole in this guy’s posts about tech job strategy is worth reading - I started here https://haseebq.com/my-ten-rules-for-negotiating-a-job-offer...

but he covers a good amount of algo resources and writes well.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#58

Post by nzjrs » Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:04 AM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #2

Note this is from 2010, but still has many relevant points. As someone who has made some of these mistakes, I'd say the tl;dr is: Good hiring managers prepare for an interview, so you best prepare as well.

Depressingly, the difference between then and now is today's blog post would be advice for how to ace your 3 part interview, each with a 1 hour coding test and the take home project for which you are expected to sign an NDA

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#59

Post by fit2rule » Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:04 AM UTC

Dear Programming Job Recruiter,

If I get your job, you and I are going to share our lives together. We will spend a lot of time creating something new out of the ether, and it will be a rocky, adventurous ride for both of us. Hopefully, you will be worth working for. The job market is large - me coming to you means I'm interested in what you have to offer, too.

If I accept your offer to spend a sizeable portion of my life working for you, it will be because I evaluated your authority, calculated the effect that your snark will have on my life, and decided it was worth it.

Programming interviews are where I can see, for myself, just how ignorant you are of Putts Corollary. Don't know what that is? You just flunked the interview. Got some clue about it, and have designed the interview to test me on it, too? Great, we're going to be able to work together.

Re: Dear Programming Job Applicants (2010)

#60

Post by RealDinosaur » Sat, May 18, 2019, 10:07 AM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #37

> I brought in a guy that hadn’t programmed professionally in years, in fact he didn’t even have programming on the first page of his resume. However, he had been practicing while looking for a job and he rocked my programming interview. He reasoned through the problem, wrote the code, it ran perfectly the first time. I hired him. And yet, I have a computer science master with an 8.1 (equivalent to a 4.0 GPA) and com…

I've written tests before, but there ain't no way I'm writing unit tests for a throw away coding exercise that used 4 hours of my time already.