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Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

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421–430 of 444 posts

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#421

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Just look at the amount of personal information Google knows/records about you. Your search history, web stats through Chrome, location history through Android, with whom you exchange emails if you're using GMail, which sites you visit and how long you stay on them through Google Analytics, probably online purchases with a combination of AdSense/AdWords & Analytics, everything you watch on YouTube etc. They definitel…

>They definitely collect much more data than Facebook. The only reason they haven't faced the same shitstorm is because they don't seem to share all that data with 3rd parties. And that is something that is much more relevant to many users. I don't mind sharing a lot of my data as long as I know where my data actually ends up. If Google uses my data to improve their ad algorithm I'm fine with it, if my Facebook data…

> I don't mind sharing a lot of my data as long as I know where my data actually ends up.

But I do, and Google (and Facebook) suck up my data anyway, whether I use their services or not.

That's the real fundamental issue.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Google ever disclosed exactly what data they collect, what they do with it, who can look at it, etc? We "know" that Google takes privacy "seriously", but that is a faith based position.

It's all here, and you can delete it (including batch delete by period or source): https://myactivity.google.com/ This page includes other types of data (e.g videos you upload to youtube or mails in Gmail): https://policies.google.com/privacy

> It's all here, and you can delete it

So they claim, but I don't know why anyone should trust them about that.

Aside from that, though, what about the data collected from me? I have no Google account, but they're collecting data from me anyway. Same as Facebook.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#423

I've known several people that would no longer work for Facebook, but the Cambridge Analytica isn't the biggest concern. It's the fact that they are censoring people, even within private groups. I have a friend that jokingly said (in a private group) that men are vile pigs. We knew she was joking - it was good natured. Yet, Facebook issued her a warning and removed her post and threatened her with a ban. First they c…

For a detailed nuanced piece about how FB handles some of this complexity check this out: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/men-are-scum-inside-... FB has its problems, but I generally find the negative press overstated and wonder if Zuck's approach to interact with the press and congress actually backfires (compare to the other companies which largely ignore them). I appreciate how often he talks to the press…

> if Zuck's approach to interact with the press and congress actually backfires

Since when Zuckerberg speaks, he always seems to be equivocating if not outright lying, and his historical responses when Facebook has been called out for being abusive in the past has always been lots of promises with no real changes, I suspect so.

> It'll be interesting to see how they modify things given Zuck's recent pivot towards focusing on privacy as a core feature.

That entire effort is Facebook's attempt to change the topic to something that is less threatening to them. The real issue is the privacy invasions from Facebook itself. Everything about their "pivot towards privacy" is premised on the privacy threat being actors external from Facebook.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#424
post #164
post #150

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Sure, but one of the biggest reasons it isn't considered cool or exiting anymore is all the negative press.

Really? Obvious data privacy issues finally becoming mainstream is what is finally convincing programmers to not want to work there? Hasn’t all of this stuff been obvious forever to programmers?

> Hasn’t all of this stuff been obvious forever to programmers?

I don't think so, considering all the devs who called others "paranoid" before for raising these issues.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#425
post #415

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That seems obvious. If you don't use Facebook you're pretty much outside of the Facebook tracking network with a few exceptions wrt Facebook cookie tracking which you can kill with a browser plugin like Facebook Disconnect. With Google, the tracking surface area is orders of magnitude more ubiquitous - everything from Search to YouTube to Chrome to Email to Android and on and on. Facebook is almost (but not quite) ne…

"Orders or magnitude" (plural) means something on the order of 100x. Which suggest to me that either you're either exaggerating quite a bit - or you were using the term without quite knowing what it means. (Which something more specific than simply "a lot").

lol, I know what the term means, thanks.

Anyway, a 100x tracking surface area is pretty accurate and not an exaggeration in the least; if anything it is too conservative of an estimate. Just Android, search and analytics on their own are easily 100x the tracking surface area of everything Facebook does, that's without considering:

gmail, home, docs, amp, drive, maps, hangouts, chrome, chrome os, messages, voice, ads, gcp, youtube, firebase, music, waze, play-store, places, wallet, domains, duo and so many more. I don't understand how this isn't completely obvious.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you'd have to toss out the 1st Amendment to get that idea off the ground.

The courts have already supported certain restrictions to free speech, so it doesn't require a wholesale toss of the 1st.

Yes, the idea that campaign donations = speech is a new one as well. Tbh I think we need a constitutional convention to really solve all the problems with the American political system.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#427
post #44

>Facebook candidates are asking much tougher questions about the company’s approach to privacy, according to multiple former recruiters. This narrative is highly suspicious. Zukerberg openly and repeatedly said that he doesn't care about anyone's privacy for well over a decade [1]. The whole company is built around collecting and selling private information. Why would people who care about privacy interview with Face…

I'd responded, years ago, to a recruiter's contact email with Zuck's "dumb fucks" IM comment.

Their response was "people change".

Evidence is that this one hasn't. I stand by my response at the time.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#428
post #414

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> a simple fact of life that after graduating, it gets harder to make friends as you get older This is not really a simple fact of life, in my opinion. It only gets harder because people make less of an effort. If you put as much time and energy into being social later in life as you do in college, then it isn't any harder to make new friends. The main difference is that in school, you're automatically surrounded by…

That's my point exactly, relatively speaking you'll never be surrounded by ~30,000 university students who are forced to cohabit the same location in their most formative years. The situation is much different when you have to find a babysitter for your kids to free up what little time you might have each day that is then split between you and your life partner to afford to socialize regularly. I've just internalized…

Ah, I understand. I was reading more into your statement than I should have. I'm a 50-something man and I often hear others of my general age complain about how hard it is to make friends, but they rarely realize that's something they can actually fix.

> The situation is much different when you have to find a babysitter for your kids to free up what little time you might have each day

Indeed! That was what taught me the real reason to arrange "playdates". It's not really for the kids, it's so that the adults can socialize with less hassle around babysitters and such.

But having children certainly makes lots of things more difficult. Mine are adults now, and I can tell you from experience that once the kids are off to college and beyond, then your social life can come back in its entirety.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#429
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I can't vouch for all of Google, but regarding location data, Google has been pretty transparent regarding which data is collected and stored; papers like NYT covered it extensively - see [1]. How did you read that article and come away with the conclusion that Google has been "pretty transparent". The story was written after more than a year of other news outlets reporting on law enforcement using Google's loc…

All these links are year or two old. A big push towards openness and privacy has happened over the last year . On an individual level, I don't think it's hard to opt out of Google's tracking. I won't argue with Maciej's quote, though, because, just like with automobiles, people will still opt into the surveillance society willingly: because the utility it brings them outweighs other considerations. Ask people if they…

> All these links are year or two old.

Two of them are more than a year old, but the practices described in each are ongoing. The third, which describes Google's tracking of users after they've specifically opted not to be tracked is from nine months ago.

> A big push towards openness and privacy has happened over the last year.

After literally a decade of constructing what is very likely the largest database of personal information in the world. Since the late 2000s, when Google purchased DoubleClick, it has worked to collect information without the informed consent of its users. What fraction of your users know that Google purchases their credit card transaction histories?

What is the "big push"? The only things I can think of were the opt-in auto-deletion of a subset of data announced over the last week or two. All the user has to do is pay attention to the tech press, then remember to activate the feature when it launches at an unspecified future date!

What is this "openness"? Working on a censored search engine for China without informing their own head of security?

> ...people will still opt into the surveillance society willingly: because the utility it brings them outweighs other considerations.

Sure, they absolutely do. There can be significant utility gains from large collections of information. But much of the utility could be gained from information collected in a anonymity-protecting matter. In order to have traffic information, for example, Google doesn't need to continuously track your location history.

> Ask people if they want to be tracked at all times, and they'll say "no". Ask people if they want to be able to locate their phone when they lose it, and their answer might be different.

And neither of these require surveillance. The phone could be located either by returning its location on command, or by uploading encrypted location data which only the user has the key to. Whatsapp, for example, shows that end-to-end encryption can be seamlessly integrated.

> Ask them if they'd want be able to cal 911 and ask to come and help them even if they aren't sure where they are, and you'll get a different distribution of answers again. > > In the latter case, lack of "surveillance" is seen as a "tragic shortfall" [0], and adding it is a "feature"[1].

Once again, this does not require ubiquitous surveillance, and it is misleading, at best, to imply that it does. Do you really not see the difference between location data provided to assist emergency response from a 911 caller and continuous location monitoring so that Google can serve more profitable ads?

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#430
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the Internet has made spreading fake news easier, but let me reiterate my argument - the Internet has made communication as a whole easier, so it's only natural that fake news spreads easier. However, that is not the fault of any given communication platform on the Internet, unless that platform happens to explicitly select fake news stories to spread, and suppress anything else. Which certainly is not case for…

>Yes, the Internet has made spreading fake news easier, but let me reiterate my argument - the Internet has made communication as a whole easier, so it's only natural that fake news spreads easier. I totally agree, but it doesn't follow that this means that the fake news situation is acceptable, or that Facebook isn't responsible as a platform which the OP argued. With the increased density of urban living came more…

You're trying to cure the symptom, not the disease.

The disease is people being morons. If you want people to not be affected by fake news, making platforms censor people won't have any positive effect. You have to educate people.

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