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Internet Data Is Rotting

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Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#21

Post by oceanplexian »

dev_dull wrote: post #13

I’m okay with internet rot and you should be too. I’m not sure where we got the idea that “our data must be preserved forever”. This can be especially harmful for teens and young adults whose indiscretions now follow them forever. Think of the privilege you had when you were younger. You could do something stupid and nobody could whip out a high def camera to record it and make it part of your history forever. Let it…

I'm OK with it because otherwise you are whitewashing history.

For example I have recordings of the Colbert report going back to ~2005. Some of his skits released during that time would be classified as "hate speech" in 2019. Of course he, and mainstream broadcasting companies would love it if you didn't think about that. There are plenty of news clips and interviews where mainstream politicians (on Left AND Right) casually dismiss gay marriage. Powerful tech influencers like Mark Zuckerberg would love it if his IMs would disappear from the Internet. The examples go on and on.

Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#22

Post by swgdo »

sandworm101 wrote: post #10
cbluth wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

would you elaborate on the political reasons?

If you want to rewrite history it doesnt help to have lots of old copies lying around. Any data not under government control is a threat.

Isn't Baidu under government control anyway?

Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#24

Post by donmcronald »

gambler wrote: post #16

This needs to be solved on the protocol level. Of course, the players who have control over our protocols are exactly the people who don't want this to be solved at all. The next best thing would be to redefine what "bookmarking" is. When I bookmark a page, I want it to be permanently stored on my local machine and full-text indexed. In fact, it's rather ridiculous that after 25 years browsers don't have anything of…

https://historio.us

AFAIK there’s no self hosted equivalent. Ive been using it for years. Whenever I put a link in my docs / notes I use that site to cache a copy as well.

When I first signed up I wrote a script to convert my bookmarks to a text list so I could import them. Around 25% of the pages I’d bookmarked were gone.

Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#25

Post by scarejunba »

I don't care. In fact, I prefer it this way. Death in species is an evolutionary advantage. So too with culture. We mustn't let it ossify.

For the whitewashing thing, it will happen anyway. Only vigilance can protect against rewriting. Websites can be altered. There is no provenance.

I'm not convinced infinite recall is useful.

Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#26

Post by fibonachos »

gambler wrote: post #16

This needs to be solved on the protocol level. Of course, the players who have control over our protocols are exactly the people who don't want this to be solved at all. The next best thing would be to redefine what "bookmarking" is. When I bookmark a page, I want it to be permanently stored on my local machine and full-text indexed. In fact, it's rather ridiculous that after 25 years browsers don't have anything of…

Tangentially related, but the reader view of a page seems ideally suited for archival bookmarking. It's unfortunate that so many sites seem to be intentionally breaking the reader view functionality in order to maximize newsletter subscriptions and eyeball monetization. Recipe sites are the worst offenders IMO.

Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#27

Post by fwip »

gambler wrote: post #16

This needs to be solved on the protocol level. Of course, the players who have control over our protocols are exactly the people who don't want this to be solved at all. The next best thing would be to redefine what "bookmarking" is. When I bookmark a page, I want it to be permanently stored on my local machine and full-text indexed. In fact, it's rather ridiculous that after 25 years browsers don't have anything of…

Check out Beaker Browser. Solves this problem on the protocol level and bookmarking automatically stores a copy.

Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#28

Post by moate »

swgdo wrote: post #22
sandworm101 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to rewrite history it doesnt help to have lots of old copies lying around. Any data not under government control is a threat.

Isn't Baidu under government control anyway?

Yes, but the effort to go through and scrub that much data to ensure only the ideas you want out are getting out would be massive. Seems easier to just shut the door and board up the room than to try and clean it.

Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#29

Post by basch »

gambler wrote: post #16

This needs to be solved on the protocol level. Of course, the players who have control over our protocols are exactly the people who don't want this to be solved at all. The next best thing would be to redefine what "bookmarking" is. When I bookmark a page, I want it to be permanently stored on my local machine and full-text indexed. In fact, it's rather ridiculous that after 25 years browsers don't have anything of…

Best use of time and money is probably http://pinboard.in/ ?

Seems like someone I can trust not to sell out and shut down.

Re: Internet Data Is Rotting

#30

Post by everdrive »

oceanplexian wrote: post #21
dev_dull wrote: post #13

I’m okay with internet rot and you should be too. I’m not sure where we got the idea that “our data must be preserved forever”. This can be especially harmful for teens and young adults whose indiscretions now follow them forever. Think of the privilege you had when you were younger. You could do something stupid and nobody could whip out a high def camera to record it and make it part of your history forever. Let it…

I'm OK with it because otherwise you are whitewashing history. For example I have recordings of the Colbert report going back to ~2005. Some of his skits released during that time would be classified as "hate speech" in 2019. Of course he, and mainstream broadcasting companies would love it if you didn't think about that. There are plenty of news clips and interviews where mainstream politicians (on Left AND Right) c…

I think if the last 10 years have taught us anything, it's that preserving the past does nothing to impede the changing moral zeitgeist. More records simply mean more people to attack for holding an opinion that has simply gone out of fashion. If the past decade wasn't characterized by tribalism and moral hysteria I'd be more inclined to worry about stringent preservation.

At this point, I'm not really comfortable with what we're preserving.

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