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Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

nytimes.com

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Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#351

Post by fjp »

confounded wrote: post #342
fjp wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was even a post on HN recently by a small artist talking about how the Discover algorithms brought listeners to his music that probably never would have found him otherwise. I'm a big fan of the recommendation algorithms, so I set up a super basic site to wrap the Spotify API and let anyone get recommendations based on a single song link, rather than waiting for the Discover Weekly recs which are based off the…

How does this compare to Spotify’s ‘Song Radio’ feature?

Honestly not sure since I don't know which APIs + secret sauce they put into Song Radio. I personally found Song Radio a little lacking - I never usually liked the most of the related songs, it didn't allow me to reshuffle the recommendations.

The /recommend API I wrapped for the site is similar, in that I let it spit out 12 "similar" songs, but I'll probably only like one or two songs, but you can also re-submit to shuffle the recommendations. The site is definitely more for active discovery than passively listening. I made the site because:

1. I wanted to more actively discover songs

2. I'm a big Spotify fan and was curious about the guts of the recommendations algorithm

3. I had never deployed an actual site (I exclusively do backend programming at work) so it was good learning experience about things like setting up a little static site

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#352

Post by godshatter »

x3haloed wrote: post #267

This headline smacks of fear mongering. Privacy TERRORS. ALGORITHMS! Walking, talking murder bots! Seriously? Please. If you pay for your streaming service, you don't have ads. Privacy concerns are an abstract existential concern that don't have practical effects at least in the context of music streaming. And algorithms? I don't understand what the fear is here. Just a general anti-technology sentiment? Why not make…

Some of us care about privacy. "Privacy terrors" is granted a bit extreme. I differ from the author in that I prefer to listen to random songs from my collection of curated favorites that I have built up over the years rather than listen to individual cds. I've tried streaming services and that whole paradigm is just not what I want. I prefer to know that the next song is one I want to listen to, and I'm OK with not randomly finding that the next song is a new favorite. I have other ways I discover music. I prefer to control the music files I listen to and don't trust the cloud to keep them safe. When I was younger I listened to cassette tapes and cds more than I listened to radio.

Am I afraid of this new technological world? Well, no, probably not, since I've spent most of my spare time (and later, my work life as well) programming or otherwise interacting with computers since at least 1978 or so.

People are different. It's a good thing.

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#353

Post by rchaud »

spookthesunset wrote: post #323
rchaud wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of ways I do it: * Use the Shazam app on my phone to identify music I hear in public places * Go on Rateyourmusic.com, look up an album I like and find what "lists" RYM users have put that album on, or what message board posts have cited that album. It's a much more "human-centric" approach compared to websites where algorithms generate the recs.

You realize that those algorithms used by Spotify and whatnot are basically doing the same thing, right? “What songs did people who like your songs also like...”

They're not doing the same thing. I have no insight into how Spotify's algo works. When I go on RYM, I am reading human-written message board posts about WHY they're recommending this album. That additional context is far more valuable to me than a generic "Users also liked..." message that Spotify shows me.

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#354

Post by mirrorlake »

criddell wrote: post #298
mirrorlake wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience last winter when I popped a CD into my desktop. Probably the first time I had heard music with a bitrate higher than Spotify’s 320kbps in a few years. Within a day I was off buying my favorite albums on FLAC and making a CD wishlist. Made me remember why I bought nice speakers in the first place. And I’ve thought this for a while: With gigabit internet connections spreading, video streaming…

I think the bitrate stingyness comes from the fact that people tend to watch Netflix at home over wired internet and they listen to streaming music over a more expensive wireless connection, often on crappy headphones. There are higher bitrate services out there. Deezer will stream FLAC and there are probably others. Where are you buying FLAC files from? For now I'm still happy with physical CDs although I have rippe…

I like to get higher bitrate stuff from Bleep and Bandcamp.

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#355

Post by ken »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #196
kstenerud wrote: post #189

I've got all my music ripped to FLAC, sitting on my file server, a little N40L microserver with 8tb mirrored storage (my music takes about 300gb total). On the server, I've got a script that uses ffmpeg to convert from flac to whatever format I want (currently aac and mp3, which my player devices support). The script also applies replaygain to keep the volume consistent. I run the script once and it processes the who…

I know it was not your intention but your comment reminds me of the infamous HN comment on why dropbox is useless and would never be successful.[1] :)) "For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in…

The last sentence of that comment is:

> I know this is premature at this point, but without charging users for the service, is it reasonable to expect to make money off of this?

I googled for 'dropbox financials', and soon ran across a TC article about its IPO last year [1] which says:

> The company’s prospectus warns it has “a history of net losses”; anticipates increasing expenses and slowing revenue growth; and notes that it “may not be able to achieve or maintain profitability.”

I'm still not sure that snarky 10-year-old comment was far off.

[1]: https://qz.com/1214822/dropbox-is-filing-for-a-500-million-i...

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#356

Post by __david__ »

guggle wrote: post #256
kstenerud wrote: post #189

I've got all my music ripped to FLAC, sitting on my file server, a little N40L microserver with 8tb mirrored storage (my music takes about 300gb total). On the server, I've got a script that uses ffmpeg to convert from flac to whatever format I want (currently aac and mp3, which my player devices support). The script also applies replaygain to keep the volume consistent. I run the script once and it processes the who…

"I've got all my music ripped to FLAC" And that's why I won't do it, because there's no way I can rip all my cds, let alone my vinyls... it takes way too much time.

I ripped my 1000+ cds in about 1 month. I specifically designed my scripts so that ripping was a separate task from "meta data" inputting. I'd bring a stack of 50ish discs to work and start ripping. The cd tray would open when it was done and I'd put in the next one and close the tray. That's the only interaction, and I could just deal with switching them all day. Then at night when I got home I'd do a meta-data pass, collecting the info from cddb/etc and finalizing everything.

I'm not going to say it's not work, but holy cow it's worth it in the end.

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#357

Post by ken »

diego_moita wrote: post #205
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it was not your intention but your comment reminds me of the infamous HN comment on why dropbox is useless and would never be successful.[1] :)) "For a Linux user, you can already build such a system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account, mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS on the mounted filesystem. From Windows or Mac, this FTP account could be accessed through built-in…

As much as anyone that gives tech support to their parents I can assure you I get your very fine and subtle irony. In systems development, the KISS principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid) is precious, it is your safeguard to mental and emotional health.

As the MIT / New Jersey schism taught us decades ago, there is no one concept of "simple". Simple in design? In implementation? For the user? For the architect? To set up? To troubleshoot?

Which is simpler: a pile of files on a hard disk, or a playlist in an online music service? It depends.

It's like asking what's the simplest mode of transportation: a 1985 Toyota, a 2018 Toyota, a Lyft, a bus, or a bicycle. You could make a good case for any of these, depending on your situation. I know people who can't operate a manual transmission, so the 1985 Toyota would be problematic for them, but on the other hand, I've never fixed a 2018 Toyota (or a bus) with just the tools in my backpack and a water bottle.

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#358

Post by shrimp_emoji »

josteink wrote: post #77
NotPaidToPost wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think CDs are still a very good option when you think about how you intend to maintain your digital collection in the next 30 years. CDs I bought in the early 90s are there, in a box. I'd like to see people's iTunes collections in 30 years... Yes, I know that CDs have a shelf-life and that real long term storage would involve backing them up. But CDs still seem a better option than the current alternatives. Edit: T…

> The issue even with a DRM-free local iTunes library is: how are people going to keep that over 30 years? The same place and way you keep all your other digitally purchased music. Just like the music I buy from bleep, Bandcamp or directly from artists. What’s the problem here?

LOL. This. This discussion here is surreal to me.

Ways to enjoy music: stream it on Spotify or insert a CD. Pick one.

?????

I mean, DRMless, local media doesn't obviate streaming which has its own valuable niche, from discovery to the fact that my 200 GB music library cannot fit on my phone, but that library is on Dropbox.

In 30 years, the format might be unrecognizable, but... I don't get the problem either.

>But for a local iTunes library you need IT admin skills to manage it, to back it up, to transfer it from one machine to the next, perhaps to understand that you can access the music without iTunes, etc. The vast majority of the public don't know how to do that.

Oh, we're operating from an assumption of pre-Internet tech literacy. Then, yeah, I don't know. The computer-as-radio/physical-media dichotomy might be the way to go. Enjoy those CDs. uwu Put thing in thing and hear sound. Zug zug

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#359

Post by smacktoward »

PeanutNore wrote: post #327
classichasclass wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CDs are so cheap these days, and Amazon has AutoRip for many albums and will retroactively add it if you bought it from them and they add it to Amazon Music later. I miss longboxes though. It was terribly wasteful packaging but I loved them, especially the ones that had unique art just on the longbox. I always buy physical.

The first CD that I ever bought back in 1991 came in a longbox, but I don't recall any of the CDs I got after that coming in them.

The longbox was the original standardized packaging format for CDs, but since the longbox itself was disposable -- the actual CD was stored in a plastic "jewel case" inside, you were supposed to keep the plastic case and throw away the longbox -- there was an outcry against them as wasteful packaging. (See for instance this article, from 1990: https://ew.com/article/1990/04/20/whats-cd-longbox/)

The recording industry loved the longbox, because it supposedly made CDs harder to shoplift. But for an industry that generally likes to consider itself progressive, being the target of protests by environmentalists was a bad look. So by the early '90s they'd given up on the longbox, dropping it completely and just shipping the CD in the plastic "jewel case" by itself.

Re: Why play a music CD? No ads, no privacy terrors, no algorithms

#360

Post by task_queue »

mywittyname wrote: post #296
rchaud wrote: post #261

I'm definitely on board with physical media. Almost all the vinyl I've bought comes with a download code anyway, and album artwork shines on a 12" x 12" canvas much more than it ever could on the tiny thumbnail you get on a music player app. That being said, indie music stores like Bandcamp are digital only, but offer one-click DRM-free MP3 downloads for purchased songs/albums. The UX is focused on buying music first…

> I honestly find Spotify and Apple Music bad for music discovery if your tastes aren't really adjacent to Top 40 (is that even a thing today?) style pop music. I strongly disagree. Spotify has dramatically increased the variety of music that I listen to and introduced me to lost of tiny artists with great music. I'm looking at the official chart top 40 online and have to go down to 7th place to find an artist I know…

> I strongly disagree. Spotify has dramatically increased the variety of music that I listen to and introduced me to lost of tiny artists with great music.

I've used a number of music recommendation applications over the last decade.

With Spotify, I've noticed that it will become "stuck" in what I describe as similar artist troughs and valleys. In other words, the Spotify recommendation engine will pigeonhole your recommendations into certain subgenres, niches, or related artists more so than say Pandora or Last.fm would.

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