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I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

theguardian.com

321–325 of 325 posts

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#321
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of minimum wage at all enforces the property — you can otherwise just keep lowering pay until its not worth replacement (eg india can get away with paying very low wages, so the threat of automatic replacement isn’t nearly as high). So the real question is: at what point does minimum wage draw automation as a response? And that of course depends on the economics of automation at any given point in time…

They also have a caste society where racism is okay. But in America, everyone is supposed to be considered equal. India is also a place where if you were to have 10 children and 6 of them survived, that’s good odds. In America, if you have 10 children and 1 dies, that’s a tragedy. Source: I lived there for a few months.

...how is any of that relevant to anything under discussion, beyond the keyword “india”?

India, and every other third world country, has their (many) problems, but nonetheless, the economy of those living on a dime is far superior to whatever exists in the US.

Minimum wage, as all regulation does, strangles such poor economies (there must be an official term for this; anyone know it?) by virtue of creating a hard line where things simply cease to exist, be it half-functional cars, drugs, housing, wage, etc. Anyone above the line is better off (all options are now guaranteed to be at least decent), and anyone below simply has no options.

Whether we really want this depends on the context and subjects (drugs, banks are high-return targets for regulation; cars and wage perhaps less so), but that regulation deletes a market, by-design, should always be a part of the consideration, though it rarely seems to be.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't gain empathy when something is temporary. Most of the stress of being poor comes of worry about how to handle long term problems / the fact that life has no point except slaving away. That cannot be replicated without genuinely taking everything away from a person.

They need a show like undercover bosses, but instead the CEO must live on 7.50 for an entire year, and work as their own employee they have 0 access to savings, they cannot use credit either, and they are given 1 suitcase of clothes, a cellphone, laptop, and some feature comforts for their tiny apartment like a 32 inch tv.

30 Days Season 1 Episode 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmSGEGOVI34

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#323
post #318
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very minimally different, I rather strongly suspect. You'd probably get larger shareholder dividends, but not that much larger. There's this idea we're dealing with here that there's massive, virtually untapped, make-everybody-well-paid amounts of money being wasted on management overhead. It's a very reasonable idea. Managers at the top get paid an amount of money that's clearly and obviously incredibly excessive an…

I have no reason to believe that it's minimally different, and I'm curious what reason you do, aside from it's comforting. When 10 people own as much as half of the population of the country, there's something there. Calling it not "a vast pool of money" might be semantics, because there's definitely something there.

When 10 people own as much as half the population, there's definitely a lot wrong with society.

It's perhaps worth considering that most companies might not replicate that structure internally. Given the numbers above, this strikes me as good reason to suspect that the approach you describe - while definitely a good idea to promote equality! - might not have the the numerical outputs you expect.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#324
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have a caste society where racism is okay. But in America, everyone is supposed to be considered equal. India is also a place where if you were to have 10 children and 6 of them survived, that’s good odds. In America, if you have 10 children and 1 dies, that’s a tragedy. Source: I lived there for a few months.

...how is any of that relevant to anything under discussion, beyond the keyword “india”? India, and every other third world country, has their (many) problems, but nonetheless, the economy of those living on a dime is far superior to whatever exists in the US. Minimum wage, as all regulation does, strangles such poor economies (there must be an official term for this; anyone know it?) by virtue of creating a hard lin…

Because if I had responded to everything you had said, I would have had to have written an essay.

About 100 years ago, minimum wage used to be a socialist concept. Now, all parties in America support the minimum wage. The only debate is whether it should go up or stay the same. Your view on minimum wage and absolute deregulation is so radical that only the anarchist party is likely to share your views. I swear, some people just want to see the world burn.

The economics term you are searching for is probably a “deadweight loss”. In theory, when a $1/pack tax is introduced on cigarettes, there is a decrease in the volume of cigarettes packs sold. That volume reduction numeric value is the deadweight loss. In practice, cigarettes are an “inelastic” good and nicotine addicts keep buying packs to support their nicotine addiction even when the price goes up by a dollar. Thus, the deadweight loss on cigarettes is much lower than with usual goods.

Regulation does not delete a market. Just because we have printed nutrition facts and safety checks on almost all of our foods does not mean people have stopped selling food and people have stopped buying food. Just because drivers must stop at stop signs doesn’t mean people have stopped driving. Just because banks are required to only safeguard 10% or more of their account holder’s balance doesn’t mean banks are unprofitable and have ceased to exist. These all just mean the equilibrium has shifted in some amount in some direction and the market has established a new equilibrium.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#325
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...how is any of that relevant to anything under discussion, beyond the keyword “india”? India, and every other third world country, has their (many) problems, but nonetheless, the economy of those living on a dime is far superior to whatever exists in the US. Minimum wage, as all regulation does, strangles such poor economies (there must be an official term for this; anyone know it?) by virtue of creating a hard lin…

Because if I had responded to everything you had said, I would have had to have written an essay. About 100 years ago, minimum wage used to be a socialist concept. Now, all parties in America support the minimum wage. The only debate is whether it should go up or stay the same. Your view on minimum wage and absolute deregulation is so radical that only the anarchist party is likely to share your views. I swear, some…

>Because if I had responded to everything you had said, I would have had to have written an essay.

As far as I can tell, you seem to have instead opted to respond to nothing I said, in the previous post...

>Your view on minimum wage and absolute deregulation is so radical that only the anarchist party is likely to share your views.

Is it really..? It seemed like an obvious thing to me: creating a glass floor traps people underneath it, but (ideally) makes life better for those above it. Glass ceilings are trivially accepted — and ceiling is just a floor to the guy above it. Is it so radical to apply it where the people above aren’t in the top 10%?

Also I’m not arguing absolute deregulation — I’m arguing that regulation inherently removes a subset of the market, and this should be accounted for. It might be worth it, it might not be. But its certainly not without consequence.

That, and that the extremely poor can live a better and more complete lifestyle in other countries than whats found in the US.

>The economics term you are searching for is probably a “deadweight loss”. In theory, when a $1/pack tax is introduced on cigarettes, there is a decrease in the volume of cigarettes packs sold

This doesn’t seem to be exactly what I’m getting at; I’m trying to refer to the idea that, when certain quality controls are globally enforced, the base cost goes up, and those who relied on lower costs can no longer be served. These barriers always existed — there’s a minimum cost to doing anything, really — but that hard-line bar has been raised. And that means the chunk of market that once existed inbetween the previous minimum and the new minimum... vanishes.

>Just because banks are required to only safeguard 10% or more of their account holder’s balance doesn’t mean banks are unprofitable and have ceased to exist.

I’m not suggesting it would remove the entire market of a given domain (I mean, regulation can, but usually doesn’t, and doesn’t strive to) but rather, it removes certain previously available options for banks which perhaps reached a sector that is now no longer served. That is, some people were not well off enough to afford such a safegaurd; the equilibrium shifts, along with the bare minimum required to enroll. Where previously “shithole” banks could serve that population, now a void exists (perhaps replaced by something worse, or better, or nothing at all).

But banks that cheat are probably globally good to regulate out of existence. Banks that safegaurd 10% vs 12% perhaps less obvious. But if 12% drives up the cost significantly, then some group of people are being pushed out.

Loan sharks don’t find borrowers because of a wealth of viable alternatives... they’re all thats left when you’ve exhausted all better options. The higher the minimum bar, the more likely someone ends up in such a state.

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