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An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

news.mit.edu

61–70 of 155 posts

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#61
post #45
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article correctly states, photons have a finite mass that could in principle be measured by putting an optical cavity on a scale.

I know that zero is a finite number, but since the photon is a massless particle, wouldn't it be impossible to get a kilogram worth of photons bouncing around in an optical cavity?

Something fun of a related nature; if you heat something up, zero particles added, it gets heavier :)

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#62
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Aside, are the mega and giga prefixes ever used for anything except bits and bytes? Sure, few examples of the top of my head: - Megatons, as in yield of nuclear weapons. Which is a bit odd unit, should be in J, goddammit! - Similarly, energy consumption/production. Commonly used units MWh, GWh, TWh. Again, the proper unit would be J, not Wh. Or Mtoe, for Million tons of oil equivalent.

> Megatons, as in yield of nuclear weapons. Which is a bit odd unit, should be in J, goddammit! That’s what is odd about it? It should be teragrams.

It's a measure of energy, hence the unit should be J (with some appropriate prefix).

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#63

For the next revision: remove the mole from the SI. It's completely pointless. A number is not a unit! Instead replace it by the bit, the fundamental unit of information.

> A number is not a unit!

Related to this is the fact that the Avogadro constant, 6.02214076×10^23 mol^-1, is equal to 1.

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#64
post #56

For the next revision: remove the mole from the SI. It's completely pointless. A number is not a unit! Instead replace it by the bit, the fundamental unit of information.

The reason the mole is in the SI puzzled me too. It seems that the reason is that chemists don't care how many atoms there are in their reactions. It would be inconvenient: fractions of atoms don't make sense, and the numbers are far from human scale. They just want an agreement, so that even if they don't know the exact number of atoms in their test tube, they know they all have the same number. That's what units ar…

>The definition of units are done in the most convenient and precise way possible.

testing my scale with a mirror that contains a kg of photons doesn't sound very convenient.

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#65
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason the mole is in the SI puzzled me too. It seems that the reason is that chemists don't care how many atoms there are in their reactions. It would be inconvenient: fractions of atoms don't make sense, and the numbers are far from human scale. They just want an agreement, so that even if they don't know the exact number of atoms in their test tube, they know they all have the same number. That's what units ar…

>The definition of units are done in the most convenient and precise way possible. testing my scale with a mirror that contains a kg of photons doesn't sound very convenient.

You were also never going to test your scale with a weight that is stored in a vault in Paris. So far you would test with a replica of a replica of that weight, in the best case (getting a copy directly from the local standards body). With the new definition in principle anybody can create an object that weighs exactly one kg and sell it to you.

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#66
Reading about standard kilogram always reminds me 2014 movie "1001 grams" [0]. Not sure how accurate it reflects how the things are actually run there, but was interesting to watch it nevertheless.

[0] https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3346824/

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#67
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Megatons, as in yield of nuclear weapons. Which is a bit odd unit, should be in J, goddammit! That’s what is odd about it? It should be teragrams.

It's a measure of energy, hence the unit should be J (with some appropriate prefix).

Peta- would be the appropriate prefix. 4.184 PJ is 1 megaton.

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#68
post #10
post #8

Confused, so how do they measure 1 kilo of something now when they need to calibrate the most precise instruments? They count 10^40 photons? How? And how does that translate into a physical mass they want to carry around? Edit: Seems I completely missed a paragraph somehow. Thanks!

The term of art is "realisation". The article mentions two realisations but does not elaborate: "In practice, there are currently two known methods for measuring such masses with great precision. These are known as the Kibble balance and the single-crystal silicon sphere". You should be able to google from that.

I never understood why a sphere was even in the discussion of a standardized atomic count.

Any rational fractions using pi = pi atoms or molecules. And that's absurd to have r=(3V/4pi)^1/3 . No matter how you mess with it, it's irrational to the extreme!

Now.. Face-centered or ody-centered cubic follows a nice quadratic expansion for integer based counting. We don't need no steenkin pi's!

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#69
post #38
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were emperor of the world, I would implore you to finance a multibillion dollar project to measure the gravitational constant to higher percision so that we could move to units that actually make sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_units

Shpx, gung'f n shpxvat terng vqrn.

V fcrag na rzoneenffvatyl ybat gvzr penpxvat guvf pbqr...

Re: An old artifact kept in a vault outside Paris is no longer the standard kilogram

#70

For the next revision: remove the mole from the SI. It's completely pointless. A number is not a unit! Instead replace it by the bit, the fundamental unit of information.

The bit is defined as the the entropy information (hence the expected value) of a random variable, which is also just a number
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