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Sleepless in Silicon Valley

economist.com

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Re: Sleepless in Silicon Valley

#101

Post by not_a_moth »

DenisM wrote: post #24

Another view on the Oura thing: https://www.medpagetoday.com/practicemanagement/informationt... It's rather skeptical. Choice quote: [...] The SRI researchers studied 41 healthy adolescents and young adults (average age 17). Sleep data were recorded using the Oura ring and standard PSG on a single laboratory overnight. Metrics were compared using Bland-Altman plots and epoch-by-epoch analysis. The ring accurately det…

Matthew Walker, probably the best known sleep scientist, has been critical of Oura and pretty much all the sleep trackers for sleep phase data. Unsurprisingly, it's difficult to guess at brain EM wave patterns from a band on the finger, wrist, etc.

I'm 6 months on Oura, and I don't think it's actually that consistent, i.e. I don't think you can say "Oura shows 50% more deep sleep today, so even if the base mumber is wrong, I must have gotten 50% more deep sleep". I wear a fitbit to cross validate each night, and the readings on both often contradict each other seemingly arbitrarily, night to night.

Overall I've found they're great for tracking overall sleep time (HRV, heart rate, temp too) but I don't read too much into the actual sleep phase data. (Day-to-day self asessment of cognitive performance is probably the best proxy.)

Re: Sleepless in Silicon Valley

#102

Post by mirceal »

Hamuko wrote: post #15
mirceal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it depends. do you have 314 in disposable income? is health really important for you?

Yeah, I probably have the cash. But it's just for tracking sleep. I know that I sleep like shit. I go to bed at 0030 and wake up at 0700. Don't really know what difference the ring would make here. No idea what the ring would tell me what I don't really know and how in the world I would turn the data into something usable.

so there are several levels to "improving your sleep". I agree that if you sleep like shit and only get 4 hours per night you don't need the ring. you need to get more sleep.

but for some people that actually sleep well and want to tweak the quality of their sleep it can be valuable. let me give a few example of such tweaks: altering the time you go to bed, altering the surface you sleep on, reducing the amount of blue light you get, playing with the temperature in the room, not using screens X hours before going to bed, not eating X hours before going to bed. I could go on. The point I'm trying to make is that if you already get enough sleep (or you think you get enough sleep) the ring might help you. yes - the price is ridiculous. but it's not about the price, it's about improving a [very] important aspect of your life.

If you want to be scared shitless into paying attention to your sleep I recommend: "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker. Everything from cognitive abilities, fertility, risk of cancer and other diseases can be influenced by poor quality sleep. Sleep, along with eating properly and exercise is a pillar for a good quality life. I believe it's worth making it a priority.

Re: Sleepless in Silicon Valley

#103

Post by mirceal »

hrzn wrote: post #22

"Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker is an excellent book for those interested in what science has to say about sleep (disclaimer: it's excessively good for you)

it's good for you as in it will scare the shit out of you and make you pay attention to your sleep. the examples can be a little exaggerated and one has to wonder how anyone that does not get enough sleep is still alive - but yeah. if you haven't already, read the book

Re: Sleepless in Silicon Valley

#104

Post by cavisne »

I've found the app recommended by wirecutter

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-sleep-tracking-app/

Quite accurate, at least for time to sleep, and time asleep. I think the REM, NREM etc is mostly noise, if you are getting 8+ hours a night every night (super hard to do!) the quality of sleep should be fine.

The best thing is to set a "go to bed" alarm, for night owls like me its so easy to say you go to bed "around 10" when in fact it can be much later.

Re: Sleepless in Silicon Valley

#106

Post by keyle »

remarkEon wrote: post #18

Hmm another sleep article. I'll share what I do. After being in the Army for a while, and waking up at 430 and going to bed at close to midnight for a long time during the week (there's no real "sleep schedule" overseas though) I've been working on tuning my sleep cycle for the seasons to great success. Over the last year I've been slightly altering my alarm each night based on when sunrise is (plus going to bed earl…

I'm like you.

It's great, but here in the summer, sunrise is at 4:15. It's a tad early to get up. I do feel good in winter though waking up with the sunrise.

I think Apple's bed time is a pretty good tool for this.

Re: Sleepless in Silicon Valley

#107

Post by krtkush »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #71

So why aren't we just using Sleep As Android like normal people, and not using some weird devices to track it? Absolutely don't understand the fetish of expensive devices just to track sleep, and I'm the one here with the non-24hr circadian rhythm.

Not everyone has an Android phone and some people don't like keeping their phones right next to their bed.

I have a fitbit charge 2 and that thing does more than just track sleep - heart rate, VO2 max, steps, connected GPS for running. So the expensive device is not a bad investment IMO.

Re: Sleepless in Silicon Valley

#109

Post by josephcooney »

pmiller2 wrote: post #90
josephcooney wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But weight by itself (and BMI) are fairly crude measures. You could be 6' tall, be a muscular 210 lbs with a body fat of 10% and be classed as obese. The next level of the "onion" is body composition (fancy scales do this, but not that well). Then you're getting dexa scans....and there are probably other levels after that. I think I'd rather know if my weight and body fat % are going up or down, rather than their abs…

Le sigh. I should have known someone would throw that particular nitpick. That’s an edge case. People who fall in that category already know that. And they’re very interested in their accurate, absolute weight. Besides, BMI is just a convenient way of quantifying what a “healthy weight range” is. I could have used any range and said I was interested in weighing between X and Y.

I am kind of in that category...and I'm interested in relative fluctuations in body fat % even though I don't give much credence to the absolute accuracy of the body fat measure.

Re: Sleepless in Silicon Valley

#110

Post by link_108 »

novok wrote: post #10
fizwhiz wrote: post #5

Tbh the oura ring has been a game changer for a data nerd like me. I can easily see how some exercise in the day actually impacts my HRV[1] and then the quality of my sleep. Had a heavy night of drinking? Watch what the oura ring reports not just on the same night but even the next night :) Basically if you're thinking of starting your own "protocol" for sleep and would like to A/B test what works and what seems like…

Why use this over an apple watch or fitbit?

For myself, it comes down to form factor. I don't like wearing watches, but I am OK with wearing rings.
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