SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships • Hacker News Board

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#741

Post by succleaf » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:14 AM UTC

svd4anything wrote: post #690

jachee wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punishing those in privilege is how you achieve equality. They can't give up that inequality voluntarily, and wouldn't if they could.

Wow punishing those in privilege creates equality. The logic “progressive” american politics is pursuing is truly scary and broken. Hating the rich is hate. If you really loved the poor you would think how to help them lift themselves up. Holding down the top both doesn’t work and is deeply unethical. College board should provide free tutoring and review classes based of their adversity score instead. I can’t image t…

Welcome to the Monkey House

HARRISON BERGERON by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr. THE YEAR WAS 2081, and everybody was finally equal. They weren't only equal before God and the law. They were equal every which way. Nobody was smarter than anybody else. Nobody was better looking than anybody else. Nobody was stronger or quicker than anybody else. All this equality was due to the 211th, 212th, and 213 th Amendments to the Constitution, and to the unceasing vigilance of agents of the United States Handicapper General.

https://archive.org/stream/HarrisonBergeron/Harrison%20Berge...

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#742

Post by lamarpye » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:19 AM UTC

testfoobar wrote: post #243

There are so many solutions that are possible if we are honest about underlying problems. For example, minority children are more likely to live in places with high lead exposure - lead has devastating consequences on brain development - and presumably future SAT scores. Contaminated Childhood: The Chronic Lead Poisoning of Low-Income Children and Communities of Color in the United States: https://www.healthaffairs.o…

If this is true, I don't think adding points to SAT scores is the best way to address the problem.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#743

Post by qazpot » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:20 AM UTC

summm wrote: post #717

How about having lots of decent, desirable universities instead of a few elite ones and many weak ones? Furthermore, one could abolish tuition and provide students with living expenses, either all or those who need them. Furthermore, reverse grade inflation in school such that the final grade is a better predictor for learning aptitude. That would solve the stupid admissions problem once and for all. Btw we had all t…

> How about having lots of decent, desirable universities instead of a few elite ones and many weak ones?

Bell curve

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#744

Post by torgian » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:22 AM UTC

jachee wrote: post #722

remote_phone wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-rigging? I’ve worked my ass off for nearly 30 years, as has my wife. We are both smart and very hard working and it paid off. My roots are middle class at best. My parents are immigrants and were extremely poor as children but they also worked hard and went from poverty to middle class. I’m teaching my children to work hard and be good people and contribute to this world. How pray tell am I benefiting from “pre-r…

The system is pre-rigged against: • People of color • LGBTQ • Lower-than-upper-middle-class • Divorced and/or single-parent homes • Rural families You talk about the decisions you made. The fact that you even had a choice is a privilege denied to many. For each of the above that you didn't have to overcome, that's a way the system is rigged in your favor. Your children won't be disadvantaged in any way, and you're fr…

I can’t agree with this sentiment of yours.

While I agree that people that had less than ideal childhoods should be given more opportunities to succeed, it shouldn’t be at the expense of those who worked their ass off for their kids, only to see their hard work taken away by government laws.

My own parents and grandparents came from shitty roots. Russia, concentration camp, Brazil, then to the US. My parents worked hard and I had better opportunities because of that.

What if government took that reward away from them? Well, surprise surprise, it did (just in another country in another era).

_you_ have a choice too: either to take the hand that’s dealt you and move forward, or complain about how others had it better because of their parents, or their own actions.

I’ve had a lot of ups and downs in my life due to circumstances as well as choices I made. I don’t blame other people for what happened to me (but I will blame government services being complete shit, especially towards veterans).

This isn’t a perfect world, so don’t complain what others get that you don’t have. Work towards making the world better instead, without destroying what others have worked hard for in the meantime.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#745

Post by batbomb » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:22 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #434

batbomb wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would it subvert? You go to a better school, you get a better education, you are more educated and you get a 34 on the ACT. If you go to a crappy school and you get the same score than there's no qualitative difference between the schools and your parents skipped vacations for nothing. But obviously the OP must believe there was value in the better school otherwise they wouldn't mention it. So they would believe…

You're exactly repeating OPs reasoning, yet you somehow completely disagree with it. I don't get you, batbomb . But that's OK sometimes.

You live in a better neighborhood, you get a better education, you likely have healthier food available to you and grocery stores nearby, in addition to a school that probably cares a little bit about that sort of thing. There's still drugs in high school, but they are sold by the rich kids. There's tutors and test prep centers by your school. There's a lower probability of violent crimes and gangs. Sure, your family has to shop at the thrift store, you get hand-me-downs, and you don't get to go to Subway at lunch with your friends.

Somehow, all of that is rendered worthless when somebody going to a shitty school with shitty food wins the shitty school and home life lottery and edges them out of the more prestigious school with lower test scores thanks to the adversity bump.

Ultimately, good school kid must settle for highly regarded state school and post about how unfair the system is on a website for engineers and entrepreneurs. Shitty school kid becomes rich and famous because they went to an Ivy, everybody in the VC office loves them, buys a Tesla and their single mom a mansion.

Just kidding, shitty school kid had to drop out when their mom got sick junior year.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#746

Post by rlue » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:22 AM UTC

GhostVII wrote: post #215

I think instead of trying to lower the bar for low income students, we should work on solving the actual problems causing them to perform more poorly on the SAT (or adjust the SAT so it is more representative of their actual skills). If students are accepted with a lower SAT score because of their background, they are likely going to struggle in University, since they have lower scores than the rest of their class, s…

100%. To truly level the playing field requires far earlier intervention (of the sort we see through LeBron James' I Promise initiative), and is entirely beyond the ability of the College Board or even the university system as a whole. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

> (or adjust the SAT so it is more representative of their actual skills).

The problem, as you point out just one sentence later, is that adversity materially diminishes students' abilities. Either we can test them on their actual skills, which correlate strongly with socioeconomic status, or we can give disadvantaged kids preferential treatment at the last minute. You can't have both.

I don't know how to reconcile the belief that everyone deserves a fair shot with the reality that there are only so many open seats at America's premier universities (or anywhere else advancement and prosperity reside, for that matter). If you truly believe in equal opportunity, you must concede that the rich and poor are equally deserving of the chance to go to Harvard, and artificially closing the gates on some of the rich in favor of some of the poor is a crude facsimile of justice.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#747

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:23 AM UTC

jachee wrote: post #722

remote_phone wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pre-rigging? I’ve worked my ass off for nearly 30 years, as has my wife. We are both smart and very hard working and it paid off. My roots are middle class at best. My parents are immigrants and were extremely poor as children but they also worked hard and went from poverty to middle class. I’m teaching my children to work hard and be good people and contribute to this world. How pray tell am I benefiting from “pre-r…

The system is pre-rigged against: • People of color • LGBTQ • Lower-than-upper-middle-class • Divorced and/or single-parent homes • Rural families You talk about the decisions you made. The fact that you even had a choice is a privilege denied to many. For each of the above that you didn't have to overcome, that's a way the system is rigged in your favor. Your children won't be disadvantaged in any way, and you're fr…

[deleted]

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#748

Post by Bendingo » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:27 AM UTC

cardine wrote: post #230

danmaz74 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, if you make a sacrifice to earn something, that something isn't a privilege.

The student is not making the sacrifice, the parent is. The student has the privilege of benefiting from their parents' sacrifices.

> The student has the privilege of benefiting from their parents' sacrifices

And that sacrifice will be for nought, due to adversity scoring.

This is a very bad idea.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#749

Post by intenex » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:27 AM UTC

summm wrote: post #717

How about having lots of decent, desirable universities instead of a few elite ones and many weak ones? Furthermore, one could abolish tuition and provide students with living expenses, either all or those who need them. Furthermore, reverse grade inflation in school such that the final grade is a better predictor for learning aptitude. That would solve the stupid admissions problem once and for all. Btw we had all t…

As someone who went to Harvard, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of extremely decent universities that all basically provide the same quality of instruction. People just get unreasonably hung up over the 'best' schools, but there are easily at least like 100+, if not several hundred, that provide easily roughly the same educational experience as far as I'm aware.

The peer group may definitely dramatically different from what I can tell, but if you're a serious student and there for the learning above all, very straightforward to get into a school that will teach you just about anything you could learn at Harvard or any other Ivy League or similarly 'elite' school.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#750

Post by yibg » Fri, May 17, 2019, 6:30 AM UTC

Fundamentally I think pretty much everyone agrees on the concept of equal opportunity. But what people don't seem to agree on is the definition of equal opportunity. Or even I guess what is opportunity?

If we have 2 people, A and B. A belongs to a wealthy family and lives in a nice neighborhood and goes to a nice high school. B has a poorer family, lives in a worse neighborhood and goes to a worse high school. What would providing equal opportunity look like? It seems like it should be something along the lines of B should also be able to attend the nice school, have access to tutors if desired etc. Not adjust B's scores up by some arbitrary amount because of circumstance.