Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#261

Post by marricks » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:52 AM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #245

freedomben wrote: post #235

I've known several people that would no longer work for Facebook, but the Cambridge Analytica isn't the biggest concern. It's the fact that they are censoring people, even within private groups. I have a friend that jokingly said (in a private group) that men are vile pigs. We knew she was joking - it was good natured. Yet, Facebook issued her a warning and removed her post and threatened her with a ban. First they c…

For a detailed nuanced piece about how FB handles some of this complexity check this out: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/02/men-are-scum-inside-... FB has its problems, but I generally find the negative press overstated and wonder if Zuck's approach to interact with the press and congress actually backfires (compare to the other companies which largely ignore them). I appreciate how often he talks to the press…

It’s really easy to win the crowd by calling everyone else biased. When FB is one of the biggest lobbyists in Washington I highly doubt the press has ever been critical enough.

They got by on being the new darling child startup and built up an gargantuan pile of moral debt which they are now fairly paying for.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#262

Post by yertlesyurt » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:52 AM UTC

Balgair wrote: post #71

jfasi wrote: post #38

I just spent three months hiring in NYC, and now that I think about it, I haven't seen a single person mention they were considering counteroffers from Facebook. For context, Facebook and Google are the two largest tech companies with a significant NYC presence. It's telling that a substantial portion of our candidates admitted to considering competing offers from Google, but literally no one was considering Facebook…

There is also an issue with the 'evaporative' effect. If no one who works there is seen as 'ethical', then you'd expect the people that do work there to be unethical/dubious. So, trying to get a promotion is then more cut-throat, the lunch crew has a few more 'jerks', the HR is a bit more biting, etc. Your hackels get raised and you are more suspicious of the motivations (however begnin) of others. Better to just not…

Can confirm. Worked there. Deeply disenchanted with the ethics of many people especially in the product, marketing, and (as you would guess) senior leadership groups.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#263

Post by jarjoura » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

FWIW, I think this past year everyone has been expecting Uber, Lyft, Airbnb and Pintrest to unlock a flood of money. Anecdotally, a researcher friend of mine turned down FB to work in Snap Inc, research and someone else's wife also turned down FB to work at Lyft went to get in before the IPO specifically and no other real reason. So as much as it makes a good story about ethics or privacy concerns, I think it's lots of things, but probably very little about Cambridge Analytica.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#264

Post by wnmurphy » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #147

My career is and has always been defined by a refusal to work for companies I'm not ethically comfortable with. Hopefully it becomes more of a norm.

This is a luxury and a privilege many people can't afford, and I am right there with you in exercising it consciously.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#265

Post by shemnon42 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:54 AM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #140

nostrademons wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think there is any company in the FAANG that is an altruistic enterprise I feel like Google started that way, and then lost its way sometime between 2009-2012. Projects like Google Scholar, Google Books, Google Summer of Code, Google Reader, Google Open Source, Google.org, and pulling out of China didn't really have much of a business justification, but were simply something good that they could do. Unfortu…

Google never figured out how to make serious bank outside of the marketing department. The fact that they kept the wheels on as long as they did, I gotta give them some respect for that. But they were always destined to end up being amoral at best and a cesspool at worst. If you are starting a company and think you want to be proud of it for the rest of your life, sell a real product, not your users.

If by "marketing department" you mean "advertising business" you would be correct. But I am skeptical you meant that.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#266

Post by robertAngst » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:56 AM UTC

jarjoura wrote: post #263

FWIW, I think this past year everyone has been expecting Uber, Lyft, Airbnb and Pintrest to unlock a flood of money. Anecdotally, a researcher friend of mine turned down FB to work in Snap Inc, research and someone else's wife also turned down FB to work at Lyft went to get in before the IPO specifically and no other real reason. So as much as it makes a good story about ethics or privacy concerns, I think it's lots…

If US "Defense" is any indicator, just pay more money.

Someone is willing to kill people for more money.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#267

Post by robertAngst » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:57 AM UTC

wnmurphy wrote: post #258

They pay well, it's a good brand name to have on your resume, but on principle, I ignore any recruiter from Facebook. It's glorified MySpace that exists to build de facto detailed psychological profiles on unsuspecting participants, and it's specifically engineered to manipulate their behavior. No thanks.

Same feeling about the recruiters from Tesla.

It sounds horrible to work there, there are lots of companies that make cars.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#268

Post by zippzom » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:58 AM UTC

Personal anecdote: I had a job offer from Facebook and a couple other big tech companies. The Facebook offer was substantially better fiscally than the other ones and it was clear to me that they were having trouble hiring. Their initial equity grant has no cliff and the signing bonus was massive for somebody two years out of school: $75,000 cash in first paycheck.

However I ultimately turned it down because of ethical concerns about working there combined with a sense that people would not approve of my job choice. I.e. even if I don't find what they're doing ethically questionable (and I do, although I don't think they're so bad), I didn't want to have to explain myself or defend them to everybody when I mentioned where I worked. Just my two cents as somebody who was one of the 50% of candidates who turned down the job.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#269

Post by randomsearch » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:07 AM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #140

nostrademons wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think there is any company in the FAANG that is an altruistic enterprise I feel like Google started that way, and then lost its way sometime between 2009-2012. Projects like Google Scholar, Google Books, Google Summer of Code, Google Reader, Google Open Source, Google.org, and pulling out of China didn't really have much of a business justification, but were simply something good that they could do. Unfortu…

Google never figured out how to make serious bank outside of the marketing department. The fact that they kept the wheels on as long as they did, I gotta give them some respect for that. But they were always destined to end up being amoral at best and a cesspool at worst. If you are starting a company and think you want to be proud of it for the rest of your life, sell a real product, not your users.

Not true: they make billions from cloud services.

Re: “you are the product” meme. I guess it’s a mechanism for raising awareness of privacy violation, but I really don’t like it. If you were literally the product, you would be a slave. You’re not. What they sell is your attention.

A big reason for not liking “you are the product” memes is it misses the key aspect of manipulation, which phrases like “the attention economy” capture. You are being manipulated into giving up more of your time and attention.

Re: Facebook has struggled to hire talent since the Cambridge Analytica scandal

#270

Post by dmoy » Fri, May 17, 2019, 2:09 AM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #256

Despegar wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the exec team realizes that the ad-tech industry had their Great Financial Crisis. Nobody is in love with them anymore. They'll get as much reception from politicians as Wall Street did when Congress passed Dodd-Frank. Banks don't earn much more than their cost of capital anymore.

> Banks don't earn much more than their cost of capital anymore. This doesn't sound right. Can you add some citation or detail?

It isn't right. The majority of banks are profitable, the industry is somewhere around $200B/year of profit (I think that's just retail banking, not including brokerages and stuff).

This is historically high.