Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study • Hacker News Board

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#71

Post by microcolonel » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:27 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #57

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #50

Thank goodness. Finally, somebody with some clout is pointing fingers at the largest contributor to garbage... the corporations who produce it. I live in Canada and Tim Horton's cups literally litter every street corner in every big city in our country. I have always thought that they should be responsible for the cleanup of those cups. It is absolutely their fault that their customers are throwing their products ont…

Shouldn’t the consumer be responsible for throwing their trash away properly? The local government is a government of the local people: if the people would stop throwing stuff on the ground, there wouldn’t be so much trash to pick up. That burden is created by the local people. Should paint companies be held responsible for graffiti?

This is the HN state of mind, where the other is responsible for 100% of the world's problems, and individuals are completely ruled by passion and reptilian instinct.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#72

Post by ethbro » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #57

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #50

Thank goodness. Finally, somebody with some clout is pointing fingers at the largest contributor to garbage... the corporations who produce it. I live in Canada and Tim Horton's cups literally litter every street corner in every big city in our country. I have always thought that they should be responsible for the cleanup of those cups. It is absolutely their fault that their customers are throwing their products ont…

Shouldn’t the consumer be responsible for throwing their trash away properly? The local government is a government of the local people: if the people would stop throwing stuff on the ground, there wouldn’t be so much trash to pick up. That burden is created by the local people. Should paint companies be held responsible for graffiti?

Yes.

But unfortunately, it's infeasible to penalize them directly. And the panopticon required to do so would cause more harm than benefit. Ergo, we target upstream as the least bad solution.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#73

Post by osrec » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #57

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #50

Thank goodness. Finally, somebody with some clout is pointing fingers at the largest contributor to garbage... the corporations who produce it. I live in Canada and Tim Horton's cups literally litter every street corner in every big city in our country. I have always thought that they should be responsible for the cleanup of those cups. It is absolutely their fault that their customers are throwing their products ont…

Shouldn’t the consumer be responsible for throwing their trash away properly? The local government is a government of the local people: if the people would stop throwing stuff on the ground, there wouldn’t be so much trash to pick up. That burden is created by the local people. Should paint companies be held responsible for graffiti?

Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the corporation if they are instilling a polluting culture that benefits them. There are edge cases in this argument of course, but in my opinion, a large number of companies produce mountains of wasteful unrecyclable packaging in the name of brand-building or low cost. They use this to bolster their business, and therefore they should be ultimately responsible for cleaning it up.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#74

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

siedes wrote: post #55

jerrysievert wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oregon has 90% redemption rate[1] at 10 cents per bottle, so there is obviously some incentive. 1. https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-bottle-deposit-redem...

Incentive for who though? For the homeless and very poor, who probably will not even be the ones purchasing those bottles(at least at the same rate as those in higher economic classes) in the first place? We need to make it worth it for the good number of consumers who buy these things, so that they don't litter in the first place and put more thought about those $0.50-$1.00 per bottle they're tossing out. Yes, this…

Maybe I’m a weirdo, but as long as I can remember, my family holds on to bottles and returns them to the market every couple of weeks.

Littering is a douche thing to do. There should be some social stigma attached to it.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#75

Post by jerrysievert » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:30 AM UTC

siedes wrote: post #55

jerrysievert wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oregon has 90% redemption rate[1] at 10 cents per bottle, so there is obviously some incentive. 1. https://www.opb.org/news/article/oregon-bottle-deposit-redem...

Incentive for who though? For the homeless and very poor, who probably will not even be the ones purchasing those bottles(at least at the same rate as those in higher economic classes) in the first place? We need to make it worth it for the good number of consumers who buy these things, so that they don't litter in the first place and put more thought about those $0.50-$1.00 per bottle they're tossing out. Yes, this…

a little more than that - oregon has bags that can be returned full without counting and left in a secured room to have the money deposited to an account a few days later. given that these are typically at grocery stores and several of them add on a redemption percentage (fred meyer adds 20% for in-store credit use), the number of non-homeless making returns is high.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#76

Post by anonymous5133 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:31 AM UTC

PetahNZ wrote: post #70

koube wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think corporations are solely to blame. In Japan they use a lot of plastic packaging[0], and have a lack of public rubbish bins[1], yet they don't litter[2]. Can we not hold customers accountable as well for not disposing of their garbage properly, as they do in Japan? [0]: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xd573w/japans-excessive-p... [1]: https://jpninfo.com/54373 [2]: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/0…

They also fine you up to $5,000 and give you community service if you litter.

Same goes for Singapore. Crime to littler and also the culture there values cleanliness of the city. When I was there I almost never saw trash on the ground, ever. I once saw a plastic cup get blown off some lady's table and the next person who was working on the street who saw it picked it up and tossed it in the trash bin. Public trash bins are everywhere. Absolutely a world-class city in every sense of it.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#77

Post by ethbro » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:31 AM UTC

PetahNZ wrote: post #70

koube wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think corporations are solely to blame. In Japan they use a lot of plastic packaging[0], and have a lack of public rubbish bins[1], yet they don't litter[2]. Can we not hold customers accountable as well for not disposing of their garbage properly, as they do in Japan? [0]: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xd573w/japans-excessive-p... [1]: https://jpninfo.com/54373 [2]: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/0…

They also fine you up to $5,000 and give you community service if you litter.

From an individual's point of view: they also fine you up to $5,000 and give you community service if you get caught littering.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#78

Post by astazangasta » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:33 AM UTC

koube wrote: post #67

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #50

Thank goodness. Finally, somebody with some clout is pointing fingers at the largest contributor to garbage... the corporations who produce it. I live in Canada and Tim Horton's cups literally litter every street corner in every big city in our country. I have always thought that they should be responsible for the cleanup of those cups. It is absolutely their fault that their customers are throwing their products ont…

I don't think corporations are solely to blame. In Japan they use a lot of plastic packaging[0], and have a lack of public rubbish bins[1], yet they don't litter[2]. Can we not hold customers accountable as well for not disposing of their garbage properly, as they do in Japan? [0]: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xd573w/japans-excessive-p... [1]: https://jpninfo.com/54373 [2]: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/0…

I would pay at least $5 per item never to see Styrofoam packaging again. But this is impossible because the market is incapable of offering me this sort of thing. Putting it on consumers is unfair.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#79

Post by markdown » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:33 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #57

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #50

Thank goodness. Finally, somebody with some clout is pointing fingers at the largest contributor to garbage... the corporations who produce it. I live in Canada and Tim Horton's cups literally litter every street corner in every big city in our country. I have always thought that they should be responsible for the cleanup of those cups. It is absolutely their fault that their customers are throwing their products ont…

Shouldn’t the consumer be responsible for throwing their trash away properly? The local government is a government of the local people: if the people would stop throwing stuff on the ground, there wouldn’t be so much trash to pick up. That burden is created by the local people. Should paint companies be held responsible for graffiti?

> The local government is a government of the local people

And that government, knowing that relying on individuals hasn't worked, still needs to find a way to solve the problem. A possible solution is to make the corporation responsible for the trash they produce. Once this happens, the corporation will begin to explore options such as rewarding customers for returning used cups, providing reusable cups, and even employing people to pick up any of their cups littered throughout the city.

Re: Coca-Cola most common source of packaging pollution on UK beaches: study

#80

Post by metaphor » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:37 AM UTC

flyGuyOnTheSly wrote: post #50

Thank goodness. Finally, somebody with some clout is pointing fingers at the largest contributor to garbage... the corporations who produce it. I live in Canada and Tim Horton's cups literally litter every street corner in every big city in our country. I have always thought that they should be responsible for the cleanup of those cups. It is absolutely their fault that their customers are throwing their products ont…

> Why should our overburdened local governments carry the cost of picking up a profitable business' garbage?

As an outsider looking in, perhaps because local governments are largely funded by taxpayers, and taxpayers are ultimately the root cause of the litter?

Consider the status quo of litter in countries like Japan and Singapore.

I think if the problem is to be effectively solved, things need to happen on 3 fronts: local government that establishes effective law/infrastructure, companies with cognizance that take meaningful action, and a population with the right cultural values.