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Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#151

Post by p1necone »

manfredo wrote: post #137
jeremyjh wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve played a lot of Sekiro on XBox One. I’ve played Bloodborne on PS Now and it works great. They have a free trial you should check it out.

Bloodborne on PS Now? That sounds like hell. Plenty of later bosses have very narrow dodge windows. I already have a physical PS3 and PS4 so there's no reason for me to get PS Now. A couple co-workers of mine used it and none of them liked it. It works okay for RPGs, especially turn based RPGs where there is zero emphasis on timing or reactions.

If you're close enough to the server it's possible for network latency to not add much compared to the combined latency from the tv + console + wireless controller. (most modern tvs add at least 20ms, even on "game mode", some add more than 100ms).

It's a different story on a pc with a decent gaming monitor though.

Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#152

Post by [deleted] »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #134
ehsankia wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, speed of light is actually a lot faster than people think. Honestly things such as controller and display lag are probably bigger than the round trip latency. And experimentally, anyone who has tried Stadia at GDC or I/O has said that latency wasn't an issue. The bigger limiting factor I think will be bandwidth, especially in America with the awful internet provider situation.

"Yeah, speed of light is actually a lot faster than people think" This would only be relevant if you had a direct fibre link in a straight line from your house to the service. It's packet switching\routing etc. that introduce latency. And even if you DID have direct fibre, the worst case scenario for distance - server on the other side of the world, but with no other latency accounted for - is about 200ms, even half…

[deleted]

Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#153

Post by Hikikomori »

ClassyJacket wrote: post #134
ehsankia wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, speed of light is actually a lot faster than people think. Honestly things such as controller and display lag are probably bigger than the round trip latency. And experimentally, anyone who has tried Stadia at GDC or I/O has said that latency wasn't an issue. The bigger limiting factor I think will be bandwidth, especially in America with the awful internet provider situation.

"Yeah, speed of light is actually a lot faster than people think" This would only be relevant if you had a direct fibre link in a straight line from your house to the service. It's packet switching\routing etc. that introduce latency. And even if you DID have direct fibre, the worst case scenario for distance - server on the other side of the world, but with no other latency accounted for - is about 200ms, even half…

Most of those hops would be on ISP equipment with 10G or 100G interfaces, modern routers forward packets in tens to hundreds of microseconds and switches can do it in a few microseconds, so as long as there is a bit of distance it will account for most of the delay, and SOL is 2/3 of its speed I'm vacuum. Switches can even sends out packets on a port before it has been fully received on the incoming port

Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#154

Post by readams »

davemp wrote: post #144
readams wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also keep in mind how important multi player is for most big titles now. If you add up player -server-player latency it's actually the same. Given more consistent performance on the rendering/frontend side it's quite possible the overall experience will turn out better.

Client-side prediction does a very good job of hiding the network latency. Granted a lot of games run their servers at lowish ticks/sec (people do complain though) which is 30ms worst case at 32tps.

You can do similar tricks in a cloud setup also though; notably you can do hit detection based on what the user was seeing when they entered the input rather than what the server was doing later. This is pretty similar to client side prediction.

Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#156

Post by romwell »

Xixi wrote: post #90
davemp wrote: post #56

It seems like all the major players are taking game streaming seriously. I'm still not very sure about the viability. There's the obvious DRM win. Accessibility will be higher with way lower or non-existent hardware costs. These probably look very enticing on a cooperate slide deck. Not to mention the subscription model. On a more technical side game streaming is only really desirable for games that don't run well on…

I have no idea how reliable it is, but quoting wikipedia [1]: "Testing has found that overall "input lag" (from controller input to display response) times of approximately 200 ms are distracting to the user. It also appears that (excluding the monitor/television display lag) 133 ms is an average response time and the most sensitive games (fighting games, first person shooters and rhythm games) achieve response times…

>I have no idea how reliable it is

This is not reliable at all. You can really feel 100ms latency.

That's why in the world of pro music, barely anything above 10ms keypress-to-sound latency is deemed acceptable.

Quake III will make all these streamed games feel slow.

Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#157

Post by jeremyjh »

manfredo wrote: post #137
jeremyjh wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve played a lot of Sekiro on XBox One. I’ve played Bloodborne on PS Now and it works great. They have a free trial you should check it out.

Bloodborne on PS Now? That sounds like hell. Plenty of later bosses have very narrow dodge windows. I already have a physical PS3 and PS4 so there's no reason for me to get PS Now. A couple co-workers of mine used it and none of them liked it. It works okay for RPGs, especially turn based RPGs where there is zero emphasis on timing or reactions.

> sounds like

This is why I'm suggesting you try it. Because to be more blunt, you do not know what you are talking about.

Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#158

Post by cockroach »

OnLive envisioned cloud gaming really soon and was then shut up by SONY. My internet was not the best but the service was quite promising. It was about time to hear about cloud gaming again. I feel like onlive was more than 10years ahead of its time and Sony 10years late.

Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#159

Post by DontGiveTwoFlux »

romwell wrote: post #156
Xixi wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how reliable it is, but quoting wikipedia [1]: "Testing has found that overall "input lag" (from controller input to display response) times of approximately 200 ms are distracting to the user. It also appears that (excluding the monitor/television display lag) 133 ms is an average response time and the most sensitive games (fighting games, first person shooters and rhythm games) achieve response times…

>I have no idea how reliable it is This is not reliable at all. You can really feel 100ms latency. That's why in the world of pro music, barely anything above 10ms keypress-to-sound latency is deemed acceptable. Quake III will make all these streamed games feel slow .

Well sound uses different neural pathways than audio, so it's not a totally fair comparison.

Re: Sony and Microsoft set rivalry aside for cloud gaming alliance

#160

Post by Ericson2314 »

There's something depressing to me about this more than other things moving to the cloud, irrational as it may be. Yeah they already could track you, and you already didn't own the game in many sense, but this just seems extra "casino" like. PC games in particular are like the last bastion of desktop software people actually care about; it seems like the end of PCs and the desktop.
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