I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers • Hacker News Board

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#251

Post by asdff » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

c0vfefe wrote: post #129

saalweachter wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, if you take a company like Google, give every engineer a 5% haircut, bring the chefs and cleaning staff and groundkeepers and building maintenance back into the company (rather than contracting out), and distribute the money and stock grants among the support staff.

That'd cause a big morale hit & big incentive for engineers to leave. Support staff are great, but at the end of the day they're not what drives growth for the company.

That's a terrible mentality. Exponential growth is not sustainable. The worst thing about technology companies these days is that putting out a polished product and covering overhead + emergency funding is seen as a failure. Products must be modified to extract money from the consumer at every turn, and the market cap must rise and rise. If engineers would leave a company because its no longer growth driven, then our universites have failed to teach empathy in their engineering curriculum.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#252

Post by asdff » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:10 PM UTC

c0vfefe wrote: post #140

saalweachter wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, you take it out of the stock grant refreshes and the noise of stock fluctuations will make it rather difficult to notice in your total compensation. EDIT: Also, you're taking income off the top of the tax brackets and giving it to someone at the bottom of the bottom, so you get a tax multiplier where you take $1 from me and give $1.50 to someone else. Also, you probably don't need even a 2% or 3% haircut off the…

What you're saying makes rational sense, but people's egos are not rational. It's the principle of the thing: why tolerate a pay cut when there's a long line of companies in the valley itching for your skills?

Let the sociopaths leave then, they aren't emotionally valuable for a company. Plenty of people in the world outside of engineering take large pay cuts to work on something they believe in vs. taking a job that gives them the most wealth.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#253

Post by thelock85 » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

flush wrote: post #211

pdimitar wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may eat some downvotes for this but I really need to say it. It's a bit off-topic, too. Please, do not start believing you will be making a difference through charity. I observed rich people in the past that out of some half-conscious guilt started thinking they need to give back in some way. But they don't want to be inconvenienced by doing it personally or by evaluating which people deserve a donation or have an…

I strongly disagree. Financially supporting a charity is an extremely good way for someone with a lot of money to give back. The charitable person may not have expertise to distribute the money effectively, whereas a group who are familiar with the needs and thus where the money should go and how it should be used will use it well. IMO, what you're saying is akin to saying: Criminals on the streets? Why pay to hire m…

That’s a fascinating take. I interpreted the comment more as charities (in some cases) can be a poor startup vehicle for those getting into serious philanthropy. So why not spend some time getting to know an issue or a specific community affected by an issue, before donating. More like: Criminals on the streets, despite more cops? Why? Maybe this money can make communities safer or deter would-be criminals?

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#254

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #172

lotsofpulp wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a reason Walmart and Dollar General are crushing others, and it’s because either their customers can’t afford good customer service or they don’t care for it and choose to shop there anyway. The proof is literally the fact that mom and pop stores and others like Sears went out of business, customers preferred saving $5 over good customer service. As I prefaced above, this is true for business where customers…

Don't know about Dollar General, but isn't Walmart successful because they're big enough to dictate terms to their suppliers and simply squash their smaller competition with convenience?

They started small at some point, and there are many factors contributing to their ability to offer the lowest price.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#255

Post by JimBrimble35 » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

toasterlovin wrote: post #186

JimBrimble35 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you are identifying as incompetence is, in fact, well-aged malice. The greedy behavior that leads to the kind of inequality faced by today's society is now so well established that it has become hard to recognize for what it truly is. The fact that this article's author seems to find it novel to trickle down the proceeds of the company to the bulk of it's employees is a pretty good indication of that.

> The greedy behavior that leads to the kind of inequality faced by today's society is now so well established that it has become hard to recognize for what it truly is. I know you think you’re arguing against me, but what you described supports my position.

It isn't incompetence, it's complacent acceptance of a toxic norm for personal gain.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#256

Post by pdimitar » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

Infinitesimus wrote: post #249

pdimitar wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may eat some downvotes for this but I really need to say it. It's a bit off-topic, too. Please, do not start believing you will be making a difference through charity. I observed rich people in the past that out of some half-conscious guilt started thinking they need to give back in some way. But they don't want to be inconvenienced by doing it personally or by evaluating which people deserve a donation or have an…

Have you ever known poor people for whom money and charity donations actually changes their lives? There are quite a lot of those all over this big world.

Serious answer: no. Never. And those who just received money like that squandered them in no time.

Granted this is anecdotal evidence but my overlook on a number of average people flaws -- and I am including myself in this group, I am not pretending like I am on some sort of a moral high ground, mind you -- indicates that most people are not... ready to receive money, if that's even the right word.

It's more or less "OMG money money money!!!!" out of them and they just mess up.

But truthfully, and this is not sarcasm, I'd love to be proven wrong.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#257

Post by whytaka » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #159

I wish redistribution to the very bottom was a bigger part of the political debate. Our politics is currently focused on redistribution from the very top to the middle class. (Stuff like free college or universal healthcare would primarily benefit the top half, because those folks are the ones who are in a position to be accepted to and attend college, and aren’t already covered by Medicaid.) The math of that is toug…

That’s interesting. I’ve always seen the promotion of free college and universal healthcare as one of promoting equal opportunity to all.

While the lowest income groups have historically had low college participation, I saw it as a reflection of a class of people not even daring to dream an impossible dream, as it would cost too much. Making it free would of course change the idea around it.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#258

Post by DuskStar » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #250

csallen wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The greedy behavior that leads to the kind of inequality faced by today's society is now so well established that it has become hard to recognize for what it truly is. So in other words: It no longer requires any malice to pay this way, as it's just a cultural norm in the business world. By the way, it's also a cultural norm in the US to complain about the lack of generosity among those richer than you, and yet spe…

> So in other words: It no longer requires any malice to pay this way, as it's just a cultural norm in the business world. Sure. But I don't think this is a sufficient defense — at the extremes, cultural norms can result in horrific things even though individual actors may not be motivated by malice. > By the way, it's also a cultural norm in the US to complain about the lack of generosity among those richer than you…

> But even if I were to donate 100% of my salary, it would barely dent things for those 500 employees.

There's a lot more people like you than billionares in the world, though.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#259

Post by c0vfefe » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #252

c0vfefe wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're saying makes rational sense, but people's egos are not rational. It's the principle of the thing: why tolerate a pay cut when there's a long line of companies in the valley itching for your skills?

Let the sociopaths leave then, they aren't emotionally valuable for a company. Plenty of people in the world outside of engineering take large pay cuts to work on something they believe in vs. taking a job that gives them the most wealth.

Being offended by a pay cut doesn't make you a sociopath, just makes you selfish. And "emotional value" is much less relevant to a company than engineering value.

I know lots of people focus on less profit-driven motives for their career, but I bet even more do not, especially at places like Google.

Re: I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit other workers

#260

Post by thelock85 » Thu, May 16, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

c0vfefe wrote: post #140

saalweachter wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, you take it out of the stock grant refreshes and the noise of stock fluctuations will make it rather difficult to notice in your total compensation. EDIT: Also, you're taking income off the top of the tax brackets and giving it to someone at the bottom of the bottom, so you get a tax multiplier where you take $1 from me and give $1.50 to someone else. Also, you probably don't need even a 2% or 3% haircut off the…

What you're saying makes rational sense, but people's egos are not rational. It's the principle of the thing: why tolerate a pay cut when there's a long line of companies in the valley itching for your skills?

At least for Google, IMO I don’t think it would generate long term consequences if engineers with this mindset who also aren’t in love with their work left the company.