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Free Solo and Economic Growth

johnhcochrane.blogspot.com

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Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#31

Post by seeken »

moredhel wrote: post #5
tomxor wrote: post #3

Not to detract too much from the author's point... But as a climber myself, I think climbing technology does actually contribute to advances in pure climbing skill more than you might think. Take just a single aspect of the gear - climbing rope, modern rope is a technological wonder, light, super strong and extremely dynamic, it's part of what makes it possible to push yourself to the limit and repeatedly fall off ro…

I agree that more modern climbing gear is fantastic and definitely gives me a great deal of confidence when I am pushing my limits, I don't think that it would stop me from pushing at all. Even using gear from 30-40 years ago, it is possible to climb with relative safety, the new gear is mainly only an incremental improvement in safety. That's not to say that I would happily take a fall on older equipment, just that…

I saw Jeff Lowe a couple years ago and someone from the audience asked him what technology he's seen that has most revolutionized climbing- he said headlamps: The small, light, LED headlights that last 50+ hours.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#32

Post by StevenAS »

gameswithgo wrote: post #12

Fun bit of trivia on this topic: Alex was the first person to climb El Cap with no protection. The first person to climb The Nose route without using the gear for aid, was a woman, Lynn Hill. So El Cap went from a weeks long project using anything they had for aid, to climbed with rope used only for protection by a woman, in a day, and now to Alex climbing El Cap (via an easier route than Hill) with no protection at…

The first two people to free El Cap were Todd Skinner and Paul Piana. The climbed the Salathe Wall in 1988. In 1993 or so Lynn Hill free climbed the Nose.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#33

Post by FrojoS »

justinator wrote: post #25
skohan wrote: post #7

> Alex is wearing modern climbing boots As a climber this hurt me a bit to read. They're not boots, they're shoes John! Also I'm glad that the movie is successful, and that the sport of climbing is getting mainstream attention, but personally I'm more impressed by the accomplishment of Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Jorgeson in free-climbing the dawn wall with protection. In my mind that is a better representation of the h…

* As a climber this hurt me a bit to read. They're not boots, they're shoes John!* "rock boots" is a perfectly fine name for climbing shoes. I think "climbing boots" is just fine

Not a native English speaker, and it might depend on the region/scene but I wouldn't agree with you.

This is a rock boot (usually called mountain boot) https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/fb/96/f7fb9693adc35876240a... and this is a rock shoe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PRxN-KNqLs#t=127s

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#34

Post by StevenAS »

moredhel wrote: post #5
tomxor wrote: post #3

Not to detract too much from the author's point... But as a climber myself, I think climbing technology does actually contribute to advances in pure climbing skill more than you might think. Take just a single aspect of the gear - climbing rope, modern rope is a technological wonder, light, super strong and extremely dynamic, it's part of what makes it possible to push yourself to the limit and repeatedly fall off ro…

I agree that more modern climbing gear is fantastic and definitely gives me a great deal of confidence when I am pushing my limits, I don't think that it would stop me from pushing at all. Even using gear from 30-40 years ago, it is possible to climb with relative safety, the new gear is mainly only an incremental improvement in safety. That's not to say that I would happily take a fall on older equipment, just that…

I disagree, in some ways it does make a big difference in pushing grades. It is much easier to plug a cam in then pound a piton when you're free climbing. To me it seems very few hard off widths would be climbed if your pro was a bong or chockstone you place. People do trad 5.11s now and think no big deal but the routes were often runout and bold leads back in the day.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#35

Post by starpilot »

gameswithgo wrote: post #9
tomxor wrote: post #3

Not to detract too much from the author's point... But as a climber myself, I think climbing technology does actually contribute to advances in pure climbing skill more than you might think. Take just a single aspect of the gear - climbing rope, modern rope is a technological wonder, light, super strong and extremely dynamic, it's part of what makes it possible to push yourself to the limit and repeatedly fall off ro…

Alex didn't use any rope going up El Cap so...

The vast majority of Alex's climbing is trad. So he benefited from thousands of pitches with modern safety equipment: harnesses, lightweight cams, ropes, crash pads (when he was training in Bishop) and so on. Free Solo was his magnum opus, the result of all that training.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#36

Post by temporalparts »

This analysis is great, but I think there's a highly underrated economic point to be made; technology has unlocked crucial business innovations for climbing. 50 years ago, if you are into climbing, others might hear about it in a specialized tv show or magazine. You also needed to be very rich to be able to afford the time and equipment costs of climbing.

Now with social media driven by the internet, the sponsorship model has enabled people with a passion to be able to sustain a living pursuing that hobby. Independent of the knowledge transfer, deeper knowledge is being created from more people being able to devote their lives to the hobby.

Here's an article about FreeSolo's earnings from sponsorship: https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-us/magazine/money-diary-alex...

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#37

Post by skohan »

justinator wrote: post #25
skohan wrote: post #7

> Alex is wearing modern climbing boots As a climber this hurt me a bit to read. They're not boots, they're shoes John! Also I'm glad that the movie is successful, and that the sport of climbing is getting mainstream attention, but personally I'm more impressed by the accomplishment of Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Jorgeson in free-climbing the dawn wall with protection. In my mind that is a better representation of the h…

* As a climber this hurt me a bit to read. They're not boots, they're shoes John!* "rock boots" is a perfectly fine name for climbing shoes. I think "climbing boots" is just fine

Maybe it's regional but I have never heard of climbing shoes referred to as "rock boots", much less "climbing boots".

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#38

Post by marnett »

tomxor wrote: post #17
njepa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should detract from the author's point, because it only works if you are largely ignorant of how things like this actually happens. It is essentially always not generics, but specifics. Specific people doing specific things in specific places with specific technology and culture. Without knowing much of the "extreme climbing community" I would bet that it is a rather specific group of people and largely non-exist…

> The author is largely trying to sell exceptionalism. That everything will be fine with generic improvements. [...] Specific people doing specific things in specific places with specific technology and culture. On second thought I think you are correct, it should detract. And it's important my example only be seen within the context of the entire climbing culture, not as an alternative to the authors causal choice.…

> I think there is something about human psychology that makes people commonly gravitate towards this type of thinking

Chronology and narrative are definitely natural ways that humans frame the world - one of the many instinctive faults in our cognition. Such a simple view of the “infinite now” is easily hijacked in marketing, politics, etc.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#39

Post by blackguardx »

skohan wrote: post #7

> Alex is wearing modern climbing boots As a climber this hurt me a bit to read. They're not boots, they're shoes John! Also I'm glad that the movie is successful, and that the sport of climbing is getting mainstream attention, but personally I'm more impressed by the accomplishment of Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Jorgeson in free-climbing the dawn wall with protection. In my mind that is a better representation of the h…

They often call them boots in the UK.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#40

Post by crimsonalucard »

John Cochrane is not the first person to think of the economy as the transfer, flow and storage of knowledge.

See this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Information-Grows-Evolution-Econo...

The author of this book not only thinks about the economy in terms of knowledge but he relates it to information theory and entropy.

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