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Free Solo and Economic Growth

johnhcochrane.blogspot.com

21–30 of 82 posts

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#21
post #3

Not to detract too much from the author's point... But as a climber myself, I think climbing technology does actually contribute to advances in pure climbing skill more than you might think. Take just a single aspect of the gear - climbing rope, modern rope is a technological wonder, light, super strong and extremely dynamic, it's part of what makes it possible to push yourself to the limit and repeatedly fall off ro…

Alex didn't use any rope going up El Cap so...

That's like saying maps don't matter in warfare because they aren't useful in hand to hand combat

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#22
post #11

There's much more technology involved than Cochrane acknowledges. Alex didn't on-sight that climb: he practiced, over and over again, using ropes and gear that have existed in their current form for 60 years at best. The same goes for how he got so good: he climbed with ropes and gear (well, sometimes), and learned from people who used gear nearly all the time. Much of that technology looks old, but isn't: ropes have…

> Another point. We don't actually know how good the best climbers were throughout history. There's a clear upward trajectory to 19th-century British mountaineering and its descendants. But how good were the best Incan climbers in 1350?

Even through the early 19th century climbers were much better than given credit for, part of this is also how grading shifts over time. I've experienced this first hand, climbed some old "HVS" routes (fairly easy grade) established in early 19th century in wales (UK), only to find them in the low extremes by modern standards, maybe E2/3 (no this wasn't mere sandbaging), on top of which they were using heavy gear, unsafe gear and mountain boots!

I have much respect for forgotten pioneers of climbing, they were much tougher than they appeared on the face of their accomplishments.

We all have little jokes in climbing when conditions make routes harder like rain, cold, dirt, birds whatever, "oh this bird shit turns it into a VS / E12 today".. it's silly, but when applied generally, it's true - every aspect that is different can make the same climb significantly harder or easier for others, those pioneers probably were climbing E9 for them.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#23
The author's point about dissemination of information is spot-on.

A couple of years ago, I read Medieval Technology and Social Change, by Lynn White (https://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Technology-Social-Change-Whi...) as recommended by PG. Technically a textbook, it was a dry and drab look at the history of various innovations during Midlevel times - the stirrup, the windmill, etc. The 30,000ft view is that when innovations are introduced it takes a long time both for them to spread and for someone to finally exploit them to their greatest contributive state. While the steam engine was not invented until 1712, all of the components had been available since Roman times. It took quite a long time to find one of the greatest uses of those innovations. At least, it used to take a long time -

Now, information and innovation spread much faster. Society moves much faster. The innovation of the stirrup took a thousands years to propagate. The innovation of the internet took less than 50 years; Smartphones took 5. The pace of global change is increasing exponentially. A modern entrepreneur must have line of sight to the latest innovations in order to anticipate their impact on his or her society, industry, business, and personal well being. No one wanted to be the new Nokia, Borders Books, or Woolworths.

But, let's take a step back from specific innovations, and look at global mega-shifts in society. From the agricultural revolution, to the various metal ages, through the industrial revolution we are now being lapped by the waves of the Information Age.

As humans we quickly absorb each individual change brought forth in the information age - email, cellular connections, the world wide web, the smart phone, etc. Can you imagine running your business without your iPhone? We very quickly adapt to the here and now and forget the way it was (Thank you evolution!). However, what we are not good at perceiving is the systematic, second-order changes that the Information Age will bring. The Agricultural Age brought these changes over thousands of years. The Industrial Age brought them over generations. The Information Age will bring them with alarming speed that we may not be prepared for:

* Retailer's monopoly on local distribution was destroyed by Amazon.com + UPS

* Newspapers have been shattered by the internet's ability to breakdown their stranglehold on the distribution of information.

* The telecom world was turned upside down by the introduction of the cell phones, the internet, and the disruption of their monopoly on land-lines (Note that AT&T is a mere brand name, which was purchased on the cheap by SBC).

* The traditional media world felt this shock earlier this year when a man with a twitter account was able to upend their distribution monopoly on the news and they were left reacting and pandering instead of dictating.

But these are a number of examples in the commercial world. What about society itself? What about the global financial systems? What about governments?

Note: this was part of a letter I sent out with a Christmas gift a few years ago. Full letter here: https://blog.jacob.vi/the-sovereign-individual/

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#24
Hmm, weird article - I wish the author knew more about climbing, as they are getting it a bit wrong.

Alex couldn't have been birthed 100 years ago and climbed El Cap. The route he used still needed to be established by others. Alex climbed that already-established routes dozens of times before committing to not use all the tech the author thinks he doesn't need. The rehearsal was key. If there's a takeaway from him, it's: "practice".

The route also had to be modified to allow anyone to climb it free - I'm talking about modifying the rock itself. 100 years ago, the climb would have been different. Not hugely so, but one key handhold present that was there before could have made all the difference.

The happened in the first free ascent of the Nose too - an entire pitch was chipped in an attempt to free it, by a different person. They failed, but the route, once chipped, cannot be healed.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#25
post #7

> Alex is wearing modern climbing boots As a climber this hurt me a bit to read. They're not boots, they're shoes John! Also I'm glad that the movie is successful, and that the sport of climbing is getting mainstream attention, but personally I'm more impressed by the accomplishment of Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Jorgeson in free-climbing the dawn wall with protection. In my mind that is a better representation of the h…

* As a climber this hurt me a bit to read. They're not boots, they're shoes John!*

"rock boots" is a perfectly fine name for climbing shoes. I think "climbing boots" is just fine

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#26
post #19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Climbing without protection has more to do with being a daredevil than a climber. I think it's important to recognise that there are many different ways to get up a piece of rock, these are a choice in "style", and each style has different challenges, different qualities etc. No one style is better than another, they are a personal choice, and this is part of what makes the sport so great... if you want to invent a…

I understand what you're saying, and I'm all for people finding what they enjoy and defining the sport on their own terms. What gets me about free solo climbing is the sheer level of risk involved. Even for the best in the world, there are too many variables which simply can't be controlled in a climb like that, which is evidenced by the high rate of death for free-solo climbers. I fully support anyone's right to dec…

> Personally it would not sit well with my morals to risk my life in such a way over a completely optional, self-serving activity given the emotional and material cost my death would bring to the people who care about me.

"Personal" is indeed the key word, and people usually bring up the subject of family and loved ones... These are my thoughts on that: Our lives are finite, crossing the road incurs a certain level of risk of death, so it's much safer to stay at home and live as a prisoner your entire life. Any family demanding a loved one stay at home their entire life would be considered selfish.

Here's the thing: for some people, climbing, or even free soling is not an event to post on facebook, not a means to an end, not about fame... climbing is the other side of the road, it IS the end not the means, it is their destiny, to climb, not to "have climbed", it's what makes them happy and is why they can accept the risk.

What amount of risk is an aceptible trade for what style is entirely personal, not selfish.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#27

Fun bit of trivia on this topic: Alex was the first person to climb El Cap with no protection. The first person to climb The Nose route without using the gear for aid, was a woman, Lynn Hill. So El Cap went from a weeks long project using anything they had for aid, to climbed with rope used only for protection by a woman, in a day, and now to Alex climbing El Cap (via an easier route than Hill) with no protection at…

So El Cap went from a weeks long project using anything they had for aid

Alex has also climbed that same route, in a comparable style, in under two hours.

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#28
post #5
post #3

Not to detract too much from the author's point... But as a climber myself, I think climbing technology does actually contribute to advances in pure climbing skill more than you might think. Take just a single aspect of the gear - climbing rope, modern rope is a technological wonder, light, super strong and extremely dynamic, it's part of what makes it possible to push yourself to the limit and repeatedly fall off ro…

I agree that more modern climbing gear is fantastic and definitely gives me a great deal of confidence when I am pushing my limits, I don't think that it would stop me from pushing at all. Even using gear from 30-40 years ago, it is possible to climb with relative safety, the new gear is mainly only an incremental improvement in safety. That's not to say that I would happily take a fall on older equipment, just that…

> Even using gear from 30-40 years ago, it is possible to climb with relative safety, the new gear is mainly only an incremental improvement in safety.

Yes, but isn't that also roughly when modern sport climbing started?

Nylon ropes for climbing were introduced about 55y ago, though, I don't know when they became wide spread. Same for modern harness, modern bolts and quick draws. So your ~40y ago might be roughly correct.

Modern sport climbing started, I would argue, around that time. For instance, Red Pointing was popularized in the 70ties [2].

Also interesting is, that Phoenix, the first 7c+, the grade of the route in the Free Solo movie, was climbed in 1977 [3,4] and first free soloed in 2011 (also by Honold).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernmantle_rope [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redpoint_(climbing) [3] https://www.emontana.cz/climbing-milestones-from-6a-to-9c/

Re: Free Solo and Economic Growth

#29

Fun bit of trivia on this topic: Alex was the first person to climb El Cap with no protection. The first person to climb The Nose route without using the gear for aid, was a woman, Lynn Hill. So El Cap went from a weeks long project using anything they had for aid, to climbed with rope used only for protection by a woman, in a day, and now to Alex climbing El Cap (via an easier route than Hill) with no protection at…

So El Cap went from a weeks long project using anything they had for aid Alex has also climbed that same route, in a comparable style, in under two hours.

Anything goes for speed ascents of The Nose, so long as you do it fast. There are aid sections, it's not entirely free.

Alex Honnold has not freed the nose with or without a rope. His nose speed record partner, Tommy Caldwell, is one of only a handful of people who have.

Lynn Hill's first free ascent of The Nose was a monumental achievement, for a woman or a man.

It's confusing because The Nose describes both the feature on El Cap, and the route that takes the plum line up that feature. Honnold's Free Solo of the Nose was on a route called Freerider.

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