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Web Programming Is Hard

shubharamani.com

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Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#21

Post by sofuture »

grayhairmomma wrote: post #12
newobj wrote: post #8

First, she thought implementing a linked list during an interview was hard. Then, she says that web programming is hard. And I'm not saying it's "easy", but talk about blogging yourself into a professional grave?

I never said linked lists were hard. I said that it's not necessary to know how to reverse a linked list from memory -- from scratch. I can look it up and get to it right away.

You know, at one point I thought that as well. I felt, that as someone who programs almost solely in 1) C# 2) Erlang -- "thanks I've got a stdlib for that".

And then I actually thought about what it takes to reverse a linked list for a second.

And immediately realized I will never, ever hire someone who can't regurgitate or reason how to reverse a linked list "from scratch" within a few minutes.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#22

Post by dboyd »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #6
patio11 wrote: post #2

I periodically think "Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could stick these two APIs together." In my more sensible moments, I remember that that idiot only needed to know HTML, CSS, the DOM model, Javascript, jQuery, HTTP (mostly headers and status codes), Ruby, Rails, basic MVC design, Oauth, SQL, SQL performance, five-ish APIs to support the two that needed integration, how to configure and…

It's like maintaining a skyscraper built out of Tinker Toys. What I wonder is: Does the following sentence run through the head of every expert in every field? Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could [do X]. It certainly felt true of most of my day-to-day work in graduate semiconductor electronics. It felt true of a lot of biology research. My conclusion is that there are a mere handful of d…

"It's like maintaining a skyscraper built out of Tinker Toys."

Actually, it's like maintaining a skyscraper built from steel, concrete and glass integrated with complex HVAC, plumbing, electrical and elevator systems.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#23

Post by grayhairmomma »

nathanwdavis wrote: post #7
verysimple wrote: post #3

One common mistake when one tries to tackle the web is to do it all at once. What you need: - get familiar with HTML and css. That is, learn the basics, their purpose and how they interact. - get familiar with some basic JavaScript and how you use it on the browser. - learn one of the prominent web languages for the server-side. Python, Ruby, PHP, etc. I used to recommend PHP as a first language because compared to o…

I would add one thing: get to know HTTP. Even a basic understanding will prevent you from making costly mistakes.

Great advice, all. The HTTP protocol skill is something I didn't even consider.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#24

Post by edw519 »

But upon studying CSS, HTML and Javascript over the last month, I can honestly say I’m humbled.

About half the time, I feel humbled whenever I encounter some new technology.

The other half, I wonder why anyone bothered.

The trick is knowing which half is which.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#25

Post by juiceandjuice »

sofuture wrote: post #21
grayhairmomma wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said linked lists were hard. I said that it's not necessary to know how to reverse a linked list from memory -- from scratch. I can look it up and get to it right away.

You know, at one point I thought that as well. I felt, that as someone who programs almost solely in 1) C# 2) Erlang -- "thanks I've got a stdlib for that". And then I actually thought about what it takes to reverse a linked list for a second. And immediately realized I will never, ever hire someone who can't regurgitate or reason how to reverse a linked list "from scratch" within a few minutes.

I did this once in assembly and ended up with a ton of desserts. (push pops)

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#26

Post by DougWebb »

dboyd wrote: post #22
mechanical_fish wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like maintaining a skyscraper built out of Tinker Toys. What I wonder is: Does the following sentence run through the head of every expert in every field? Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could [do X]. It certainly felt true of most of my day-to-day work in graduate semiconductor electronics. It felt true of a lot of biology research. My conclusion is that there are a mere handful of d…

"It's like maintaining a skyscraper built out of Tinker Toys." Actually, it's like maintaining a skyscraper built from steel, concrete and glass integrated with complex HVAC, plumbing, electrical and elevator systems.

Two different development processes, two different outcomes. And unlike other 'construction'-type businesses, in software we have many different development processes.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#27

Post by jaspero »

I appreciate the author for recognizing web development. I often stumble upon my 'programming' friends who think web development and especially front-end is boring and trivial. I have hard time explaining how important and how complex things can get.

It's something my fellow hard-core programmer friends will never understand. I love my job and what I do.

Web Development rules!

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#28

Post by r00k »

grayhairmomma wrote: post #19
newobj wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. But as someone who's conducted hundreds of developer interviews, I can say it's absolutely a huge red flag for me. Total failure would be a straight no-hire. I see it as something that should be very easily re-derivable. You certainly will encounter harder things that you need to invent (not just re-invent) during the course of any job.

Well, I guess you'd never hire me then. Which is OK. I can't be anything but honest. Sorry. It's who I am.

Couldn't you learn this concept, grow as a programmer, and become more hirable in the process?

It seems like you've decided you're not capable of teaching yourself through it.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#29

Post by lwhi »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #6
patio11 wrote: post #2

I periodically think "Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could stick these two APIs together." In my more sensible moments, I remember that that idiot only needed to know HTML, CSS, the DOM model, Javascript, jQuery, HTTP (mostly headers and status codes), Ruby, Rails, basic MVC design, Oauth, SQL, SQL performance, five-ish APIs to support the two that needed integration, how to configure and…

It's like maintaining a skyscraper built out of Tinker Toys. What I wonder is: Does the following sentence run through the head of every expert in every field? Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could [do X]. It certainly felt true of most of my day-to-day work in graduate semiconductor electronics. It felt true of a lot of biology research. My conclusion is that there are a mere handful of d…

Man, I really shouldn't be getting paid for this. Any idiot could [do X].

I think this is true in many fields.

It's usually a case of 'knowing where to tap'.. once you have that knowledge, the process of building stuff isn't always so difficult.

Re: Web Programming Is Hard

#30

Post by jemfinch »

Yes, it's hard. Unnecessarily hard, which is why I hate when I have to do it.

The complexity of web development is not intrinsic to the problem, but an extrinsic reality imposed by widely differing implementations of a number of overengineered technologies.

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