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Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

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Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#41

Post by wallace_f »

coldtea wrote: post #14
rgbrenner wrote: post #5

China is highly unlikely to undermine the U.S.-led global system given it has been one of its biggest beneficiaries, Balakrishnan said. They undermine it every day they refuse to allow free trade. The US and others spent a lot of resources building the free trade system of the world... and China wants the benefits of selling into that global market, while reserving their own market for themselves. Every day they are…

> They undermine it every day they refuse to allow free trade. The US and others spent a lot of resources building the free trade system of the world... I.e. the kind of trade that they dictate and call "free", creating banana republics that cut them special deals, toppling governments when they don't like their decisions, using humanitarian and development funding (even from supposedly independent sources, like the…

The US does this, but I'm glad it's a country where we value being able to openly criticize our government for it.

We have an independent judiciary, democratic institutions--what are structural Separations of Powers which is the most important structure of a civilization consistent with liberty.

China doesn't have that. Saying the US also cheats the rules, too, is important, but shouldn't be confused with the reality that China does it much more abhorrently.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#42

Post by chvid »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #21
product50 wrote: post #10

Isn't the ball in China's court here? I am not sure what is the expectation of US in this. China has a completely closed market while at the same time they are reaping the benefits of selling in markets of other countries with no penalties. How is that fair? Also, they force companies to share their technologies/IP if they are interested in coming into Chinese markets - and then they just steal it to undercut the for…

China has done what every developing country should do (Edit: and what the likes of Japan and Korea did before them) If you open your economy when you are relatively undeveloped and weak then foreign companies will immediately occupy your economy and you can forget about creating national 'champions'. China is not a closed market but they are careful not to fall into that trap.

I find it scary that you get downvoted for saying something you can find in an economics textbook.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#43

Post by infinity0 »

Teever wrote: post #18
londons_explore wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't stopping other countries doing the same. The world might be a better place if everyone stole and remixed IP

They aren't stopping other countries from doing the same yet . And the reason for that is that they are still the underdog so it makes sense to turn a blind eye to their domestic industries violating American IP laws. Just like it makes sense for the US to enact and attempt to enforce restrictive IP laws on a global scale. Make no mistake once China ascends they will enforce their will on the world just like the US h…

This is the type of comment that really indicates an immensely ignorant oversimplified misunderstanding of the complexity of the Chinese political situation.

China has overthrown harsh rulers many more times than the US has, even taking into account the latter's short and young history. The last time was in 1912, and very plausibly arguably 1949 too. (The Nationalists were pretty bad, objectively speaking.)

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#44

Post by ptah »

Tepix wrote: post #29
PunchTornado wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how is china a closed market? germany sells plenty of cars there...

They force foreign manufacturers to create local businesses with 50% chinese share.

this is a good way to avoid getting colonized by american companies

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#45

Post by blago »

londons_explore wrote: post #11
product50 wrote: post #10

Isn't the ball in China's court here? I am not sure what is the expectation of US in this. China has a completely closed market while at the same time they are reaping the benefits of selling in markets of other countries with no penalties. How is that fair? Also, they force companies to share their technologies/IP if they are interested in coming into Chinese markets - and then they just steal it to undercut the for…

They aren't stopping other countries doing the same. The world might be a better place if everyone stole and remixed IP

> The world might be a better place if everyone stole and remixed IP

Until it becomes unprofitable to invest in innovation

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#46

Post by mistermann »

Barrin92 wrote: post #17
coldtea wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As Milton Friedman has pointed out, the loser of protectionist policies are the countries that practice them. Milton Friedman says that because he's a policy advisor of countries that benefit from others dropping their protectionist policies. At a certain state of development (and when you are not yet top dog to dictate what "free" trade means to other countries), you need some well balanced protectionist policies.…

The infant industry argument is controversial, but assuming for a second it is correct, how is that related to the discussion about what course the US should take towards China right now ? The US does not need industry protection. The US is the most advanced country on the planet. When the US administration gets into a tradewar that makes Chinese commodities more expensive and stops American farmers from selling soyb…

> The US does not need industry protection. The US is the most advanced country on the planet.

--> The US is the most advanced country on the planet, therefore it logically follows that they do not need industry protection.

This doesn't seem quite right to me. Are you seeing a perspective that I'm overlooking? Have I perhaps mischaracterized you?

> The answer is clearly that the narrative is purely political and not economical.

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that "Playing up China as an economic enemy..." is completely true, do you consider that a complete proof of the above assertion?

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#47

Post by ionised »

wallace_f wrote: post #41
coldtea wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They undermine it every day they refuse to allow free trade. The US and others spent a lot of resources building the free trade system of the world... I.e. the kind of trade that they dictate and call "free", creating banana republics that cut them special deals, toppling governments when they don't like their decisions, using humanitarian and development funding (even from supposedly independent sources, like the…

The US does this, but I'm glad it's a country where we value being able to openly criticize our government for it. We have an independent judiciary, democratic institutions--what are structural Separations of Powers which is the most important structure of a civilization consistent with liberty. China doesn't have that. Saying the US also cheats the rules, too, is important, but shouldn't be confused with the reality…

> The US does this, but I'm glad it's a country where we value being able to openly criticize our government for it.

Around half of your population don't seem to want that at all as long as 'their guy' is in power.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#48

Post by dx034 »

chewz wrote: post #3

> we also want China to be able to assume its rightful place as it develops and becomes a superpower in its own right, Singapore economy is depending on trade and prolonged trade war will ruin Singapore with its unsustainable debt. But how does China 'assuming its rightful place' should look in practical terms? Withdrawing US fleets from Pacific? Allowing East Asia to become China's vasal teritory? Tolerating growing…

Any nation of the Singapore's size would be ruined without trade. That's independent of debt levels, Singapore has to specialize and just cannot run a self-sustaining economy.

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#49

Post by thefounder »

rgbrenner wrote: post #5

China is highly unlikely to undermine the U.S.-led global system given it has been one of its biggest beneficiaries, Balakrishnan said. They undermine it every day they refuse to allow free trade. The US and others spent a lot of resources building the free trade system of the world... and China wants the benefits of selling into that global market, while reserving their own market for themselves. Every day they are…

US seems to promote free trade for the industries it controls. When it looses to competition it invokes national security, military intervention etc...Trump made clear what was already known.

I am a free trade believer but you must be stupid not to see that US doesn't want free trade. It wants free trade where it works for them, their "free trade", in US dollars of course. If you compete with the US you become a foe, an enemy.

"We must protect our country and our workers. Our steel industry is in bad shape. IF YOU DON’T HAVE STEEL, YOU DON’T HAVE A COUNTRY!"

"I think the European Union is a foe, what they do to us in trade. Now you wouldn't think of the European Union but they're a foe"

"There's a lot of anger at the fact that Germany is paying Russia billions of dollars."

Re: Singapore Urges U.S. to Accept China's Rise, Spare Other Nations

#50

Post by ionised »

mdemare wrote: post #31
coldtea wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As Milton Friedman has pointed out, the loser of protectionist policies are the countries that practice them. Milton Friedman says that because he's a policy advisor of countries that benefit from others dropping their protectionist policies. At a certain state of development (and when you are not yet top dog to dictate what "free" trade means to other countries), you need some well balanced protectionist policies.…

Milton Friedman has been dead for 13 years.

Hopefully his ideas will follow.
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