City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population • Hacker News Board

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#151

Post by crx07 » Thu, May 16, 2019, 6:56 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #101

crx07 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you so much for making the counterpoint. I grew up in a rural setting and would give just about anything to take back that loss of years of my life. A few extras: * You can't exercise, because dogs don't just bark but also chase you, and no one cares or thinks you're the asshole for complaining because you're in the country. * Daily life is /very/ stressful. Forgot milk? Well, fuck you, buddy, because you're ei…

How much of this is because of the rich vs. poor axis rather than the urban vs. rural one? There's rich rural (think of the Hamptons, Tahoe, Marin/Napa Counties) and poor rural (Appalachia, Deep South, Central Valley), just like there's rich urban (lower Manhattan, Pac Heights, wealthy areas of Taipei/Shanghai/Tokyo etc.) and poor urban (the Tenderloin, the Bronx, much of Baltimore or Detroit). I never see things lik…

Poverty is undoubtedly the cause in most cases, but not all. It’s worth noting that even among farmers who deal in $100,000s, the addiction and suicide rates are still abysmal because their lifestyle and environment are so unfavorable.

Also, and while it’s probably controversial to say, I don’t think poverty in the inner city is anywhere near as hard to overcome. First and foremost, you have access to numerous social services and charities that don’t exist in rural settings. You can also literally just take a bus out of any urban ghetto every day and lead any kind of life you want. If you’re stuck in a trailer park surrounded by hell, for lack of a better description, you’re completely and totally fucked — especially if you’re a minor.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#152

Post by richjdsmith » Thu, May 16, 2019, 7:00 AM UTC

magduf wrote: post #75

logjammin wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a weird fetishization, isn't it? I think that's a really good point. Dovetails with political movements that idealize(d) the working man/class, as if poor people couldn't be as flawed and human as the rest of us. It's pretty bold to be talking about cities and mental health when about five minutes in a small town will vividly show you the backstabbing, gossipy, popularity contest bullshit that comes with "closel…

You bring up another thing: small towns are not actually "rural". Rural is when you literally cannot walk to a store in less than an hour to get food. Small towns really aren't that different from cities, just at a smaller scale. Things are still close together (in fact, usually they're more dense than suburbs) and walkable, if the town was laid out before the rise of the automobile. Of course, they have big downside…

Out of curiosity, are you actually from a small town? If so, what was it that everyone knew everyone?

The town I grew up in was around 20,000 people. While I absolutely ran into people I knew when out doing errands, I don't think it was ever to the extent my mother-in-law (someone who despises small towns) imagined it to be. I am curious where this notion came from.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#153

Post by jondubois » Thu, May 16, 2019, 7:13 AM UTC

jackcosgrove wrote: post #21

Every time I visit my relatives in their rural area, I feel a sense of liberation. The air is cleaner, there is less noise, you can hear the breeze, and even the sky seems bigger. You can see the Milky Way at night. Coming from a city, it's a relief. However I also know the dark side of rural areas, mainly substance abuse triggered by boredom and lack of opportunity. There is always a trade-off.

I spent most of my childhood in suburban towns but most of my adulthood in big cities so I was shocked to discover that many city people seem to think that suburban towns are full of crazy people and violent criminals...

But I still feel that city people are crazier and more dangerous on average. The stick and carrot aspect of big cities does drive people at least slightly crazy.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#154

Post by jjeaff » Thu, May 16, 2019, 7:23 AM UTC

magduf wrote: post #44

jackcosgrove wrote: post #21

Every time I visit my relatives in their rural area, I feel a sense of liberation. The air is cleaner, there is less noise, you can hear the breeze, and even the sky seems bigger. You can see the Milky Way at night. Coming from a city, it's a relief. However I also know the dark side of rural areas, mainly substance abuse triggered by boredom and lack of opportunity. There is always a trade-off.

That's not my experience with rural areas at all. Instead, it's usually pretty noisy because of all the neighbors with barking dogs (yes, there are neighbors in rural areas; most people can't afford 40 acres all to themselves, so they live in little clusters), and it stinks because of the cow and horse manure. Just hope you're not located close to a pig farm. And of course there's all the noisy trucks everyone drives…

I'll grant you that pig farms stink, but unless you are talking about a large concentration of cattle, like a feed lot, then cow and horse manure is just not generally considered "stinky" by anyone but the most fragile of city dweller.

Especially for those that grew up around it.

Grass fed cattle dung barely smells even when it's fresh. Same with horses. Pigs are the same, only when in concentration.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#155

Post by Reelin » Thu, May 16, 2019, 7:42 AM UTC

crx07 wrote: post #149

Reelin wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived in a small town surrounded by rural area for a bit: > You can't exercise, because dogs don't just bark but also chase you, and no one cares or thinks you're the asshole for complaining because you're in the country. This is literally what pepper spray and similar is intended for. Don't go cycling without it! You have to look out for yourself if you're in the middle of nowhere. Not willing to do that? The…

Pepper spray (hell, even max strength bear spray with tear gas) wasn’t anywhere near enough. You don’t have enough range for it to start working in time when they’re charging at you, at least not unless it’s one of those crazy kinds that shoots like 20 feet, and if you aim poorly it’s over. The smart people who were crazy enough to walk or jog regularly carried 5+ foot ugly sticks (or spears/lances) and/or a firearm.…

> and that was the third attack in a one mile stretch

Wow. Where was this?! I'm accustomed to clueless pet owners but that's just ridiculous. Cycling regularly, I recall ~4 run-ins over as many years (compared to none in urban or suburban areas ever).

I suppose I'd graduate to rubber bullets or even bird shot if it was that bad, but at some point it's really up to the authorities to ensure some minimal level of public safety. What is animal control even for if they don't fix things like this? It sounds like you were located in a terribly run county.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#156

Post by dagw » Thu, May 16, 2019, 8:13 AM UTC

magduf wrote: post #97

adamson wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's by no means a constant, permeating stink. Sure, there are some neighborhoods with open air food markets that can be smelly, or some that are downwind of waste processing centers (most of East Williamsburg), or smelly because of wastewater (parts of East New York and Canarsie), but for 95% of the city, you're not going to smell anything unpleasant unless you're leaning in to sniff trash bags.

I've walked all around Manhattan many times. No, it's not a constant, permeating stink, but that city does stink a lot, though it's worse of course when they put the trash out since NYC doesn't have alleys like other American cities. However, I haven't had the same experience in non-US cities like Tokyo and Munich. Those cities are just much, much cleaner in many ways than NYC, and it's not just the smell.

'Throwing' your trash out on the street every week is a solution to the trash problem which probably accounts for a lot of smell. I bet if they stopped doing that then it would improve a lot.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#157

Post by jjeaff » Thu, May 16, 2019, 8:40 AM UTC

crx07 wrote: post #150

sigstoat wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Daily life is /very/ stressful. [...] Want a pizza delivered? Nope. Chinese? Hahah. uh. if that constitutes stressful, how do you survive receiving bad personal news?

Ok, ok, since you want to be horsey: ambulances take 50-60 minutes to arrive (pregnant? heart disease? prepare to feel third world terror), the police can’t realistically save you from any kind of violent altercation or crime and no one else will see it happen, there’s no public transportation and you can’t walk to town—so you’re stranded on a desert island if your car ever breaks down. There’s also a constant threat…

Many people in rural areas have medivac insurance so they can be airlifted in a serious emergency. I believe it used to cost us around $100 a year.

And let's be real, the cops don't show up during a crime in the city either.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#158

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, May 16, 2019, 11:05 AM UTC

Ma8ee wrote: post #148

toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are cities better for people if you're cramming everyone into less space and want them to move about less? If research says no, we shouldn't be promoting cities, but ways of reducing environmental impact while also reducing density when zoning/land use planning. "In fact, the Centre for Urban Design and Mental Health estimates that city dwellers face a nearly 40 percent higher risk of depression, 20 percent highe…

I won’t get into the completely different discussion about mental health. You don’t state where your quote comes from, but it would be interesting to know if they say anything about what exactly living in a city makes people more depressed. But your point about move about less: people living in cities actually move more. You’re much likely to walk or bicycle to shops or work when the distance is one and a half mile t…

Quote is directly from the linked article for this thread.

I don’t want to be restricted to shopping, work, or entertainment that is walking distance or possibly public transit if I’m feeling adventurous, which is what living in a city constrains you to.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#159

Post by JeremyNT » Thu, May 16, 2019, 11:09 AM UTC

richjdsmith wrote: post #152

magduf wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring up another thing: small towns are not actually "rural". Rural is when you literally cannot walk to a store in less than an hour to get food. Small towns really aren't that different from cities, just at a smaller scale. Things are still close together (in fact, usually they're more dense than suburbs) and walkable, if the town was laid out before the rise of the automobile. Of course, they have big downside…

Out of curiosity, are you actually from a small town? If so, what was it that everyone knew everyone? The town I grew up in was around 20,000 people. While I absolutely ran into people I knew when out doing errands, I don't think it was ever to the extent my mother-in-law (someone who despises small towns) imagined it to be. I am curious where this notion came from.

20,000 may be small but for those of us who grew up in rural areas I don't think that's what we think of immediately when you invoke the phrase "small town." For us the 20k town was the booming city we would sometimes visit.

From where I grew up in the country we could drive about 20 minutes to get to a town of maybe 1000 people and it's very different than 20k. You probably have one small clinic in the 1k town (compare to multiple doctors and probably a hospital in the 20k town) and maybe a small independent grocery store (vs probably multiple regional chains in the 20k).

The difference of scale is a difference of kind too. And also, the image of the "small town" - the romanticized version - isn't of the strip mall laden 20k town, but of the 1k town frozen in the past.

But let me tell you both of those size towns suck for different reasons. The decay is more palpable now in the 1k town as the economic horizon has really contracted. That one grocery store is probably closed now. The 20k town may make a go at things because it has more residents and thus retail type jobs, but unlike the 1k town built environment is more gross and less quaint, and the strip mall filled landscape is depressing.

Re: City residents live with mental illness at higher rates than general population

#160

Post by imtringued » Thu, May 16, 2019, 11:11 AM UTC

balfirevic wrote: post #68

eslaught wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider: for pretty much any animal I'm aware of, there's a notion of the minimum amount of space it needs to live normally. Somehow for people we've convinced ourselves that there is no such minimum (or it's so small as to be absurd).

What do you consider acceptable minimal amount of space for a human being?

At a minimum physically separated kitchen, bathroom, living room, bedroom. So I'd say somewhere around 40sqm for a single person and 10sqm for every additional person. Anything less is a deal breaker or only acceptable in the short term during college, etc.