Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous • Hacker News Board

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#171

Post by djsumdog » Thu, May 16, 2019, 2:47 AM UTC

leetrout wrote: post #118

ausbah wrote: post #98

I am frankly appalled how some people in this thread appear so nonchalant about willing to accept the deaths of children in the name of letting a majority of kids "have the right kind of fun".

I don’t get that vibe. I’m not sure of your age or if you’re a parent but there’s some recent writing in “Coddling of the American Mind” where they speak about making the road for the child instead of the child for the road and how that’s influenced adolescents today and their lack of maturity in college and beyond. It’s terrifying to think about something happening to my daughter but I know if I don’t give her the o…

That's exactly the book I thought of when I saw this article. I think he mentions this type of playground in the book.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#172

Post by djsumdog » Thu, May 16, 2019, 2:52 AM UTC

In high school I remember walked through the primary school and noticing both jungle gyms were gone. Another friend said the big metal jungle gym at his elementary school were gone too. Only the overhead monkey bars remained.

I suspect kids probably go hurt on these (they are solid metal bars that go up pretty high after all). I've seen them return to playgrounds, but today they're all made of rope and above softer material like sand or recycled tiers.

Sure kids are safer today, but that element of danger is gone. I recently though about that when I read "The Coddling of the American Mind," where the authors talk about how kids are 'anti-fragile' and how trying to make them safe actually keeps them from learning how to deal with tough situations in life. I think they mention these types of playgrounds in the book.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#173

Post by MereInterest » Thu, May 16, 2019, 2:56 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #13

devchix wrote: post #9

A recent episode of 99% Invisible: Play Mountain looked at how the playground got to be safe and boring. "A two-year-old boy named Frank Nelson was climbing a 12-foot-tall slide in a Chicago park when he slipped through a railing and hit his head so hard that it caused permanent brain damage. The park system of Chicago was sued and had to pay out millions of dollars to Nelson’s family. At that time, in the late 70s,…

It’s a little like terrorism. You can have tens of thousands of people die from cars, smoking and obesity. But if a fraction of that dies from terrorists the whole country changes. If one child gets hurt from a slide or abducted by a stranger the whole country changes to avoid this risk but all the other risks are silently accepted.

Absolutely. I did the math recently to come up with a comparison for how many people heart disease kills. Suppose the Columbine massacre had never stopped. Rather, all day, every day, the same rate of death kept happening as during the 49 minutes of the attack. You would need 5 of those continuous attacks ongoing at all times in order to be equivalent to heart disease in the US.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#174

Post by TimTheTinker » Thu, May 16, 2019, 2:57 AM UTC

whyaduck wrote: post #106

TimTheTinker wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of children dying in the womb = crickets. (or hot debate, depending on your country) I know that's a controversial issue. No offense intended toward any individuals - but this is my viewpoint.

There's one thing I guarantee you'll never find in a womb: a child.

This would be laughable if the moral implications weren’t so dire.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#175

Post by justasitsounds » Thu, May 16, 2019, 2:58 AM UTC

hyperdunc wrote: post #125

unknownkadath wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, here's the thing: a neural tube with the same number of neurons as C. elegans isn't the same thing as a human being. I can see how some folks can get confused, though.

Comparing snapshots of organisms isn't that useful. C. Elegans is never going to turn into a conscious human being.

Well, if we're talking about potential, most pro-lifers make exceptions for cases of rape or incest. However, if it's one's "sincerely held belief" that a ball of cells is a human because it has the potential to become a conscious human being then such exceptions are the equivalent to killing an adult who's only crime is to have been conceived as a result of rape or incest.

Personally I am pro-choice, but if you are really pro-life you cannot morally allow for exceptions in the case of rape or incest- unless of course your stated agenda isn't the same as your real agenda

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#176

Post by ethagknight » Thu, May 16, 2019, 3:03 AM UTC

magicalhippo wrote: post #95

devchix wrote: post #9

A recent episode of 99% Invisible: Play Mountain looked at how the playground got to be safe and boring. "A two-year-old boy named Frank Nelson was climbing a 12-foot-tall slide in a Chicago park when he slipped through a railing and hit his head so hard that it caused permanent brain damage. The park system of Chicago was sued and had to pay out millions of dollars to Nelson’s family. At that time, in the late 70s,…

A friend of mine designs playgrounds for kids, and is very good at it (his designs win 90+% of the competitive bids he enters). He's also worked hard to put in place a playground safety inspector certification system over here. One of his core ideas is that there are two types of safety: subjective safety and objective safety. For example, kids quickly learn that falling from a height is painful, and experiences such…

Does your friend have a website? If not, can you see me contact info? Email in bio.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#177

Post by PetahNZ » Thu, May 16, 2019, 3:08 AM UTC

skavi wrote: post #161

alexhutcheson wrote: post #150

There is good evidence that the rubber "safety" matting that's common on new playgrounds causes significantly more long-bone injuries (broken arms and legs) than previous surfaces like wood chips. Kids test the limits and play up to the point of pain, so they'll leap off structures onto rubber matting in a way that they wouldn't do onto wood chips or pea gravel. In the name of "safety", we're using surfaces that prev…

Why not use rubber mulch then? Lots of playgrounds already use it, and it offers the cushioning of wood chips and the "softness" of rubber matting.

I think he means wood chips hurt, so kids don't jump off things from so high, so its less likely to break bones.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#178

Post by Tsagadai » Thu, May 16, 2019, 3:31 AM UTC

speeder wrote: post #8

My second worst accident as a kid, was on a "safe" playground, when my finger got stuck on a hinge of a swing. My most daring stunts, were on "safe" playgrounds too, for example trying to make swings do a 360 (yes, I tried that, never succeeded). Both times what was going on my mind is that I wanted to do something fun, and the equipment looked like it would work for what I wanted... Ended once even accidentally disa…

A 360 on a children's swing can definitely be done. I've done it as a child and as an adult. It usually needs to have a much longer rope/chain on it to get the momentum up.

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#179

Post by rayiner » Thu, May 16, 2019, 3:31 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #59

umvi wrote: post #21

You're right - anything that provokes fear or outrage gets instant attention. Everything else doesn't. North Korea imprisoning a single idiot American who crossed the border = national dialogue because it's outrageous School shooting where 3 people die = national dialogue on gun control because it's outrageous. DUI accident that kills a family of 5 = small blurb in local news because it's not outrageous (even if it s…

> School shooting where 3 people die = national dialogue on gun control because it's outrageous. I'm sorry, what country is this? The one I live in its just "thoughts and prayers" when that happens.

Do you live in a blue state? Folks are in a state of apoplexy here in Maryland. If gun ownership wasn’t written into the Constitution the overreaction would have been complete long ago. (Same thing with free speech.)

Re: Making Playgrounds a Little More Dangerous

#180

Post by rayiner » Thu, May 16, 2019, 3:33 AM UTC

bargl wrote: post #68

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> School shooting where 3 people die = national dialogue on gun control because it's outrageous. I'm sorry, what country is this? The one I live in its just "thoughts and prayers" when that happens.

I do not understand the attack on "thoughts and prayers." There are plenty of people sending "thoughts and prayers" who also support gun control. I get that it calls out the hypocrisy of Christians who don't support gun control, but it also seems like an overly broad attack. What does someone who both believes gun control is necessary and wants to send "thoughts and prayers" do? I think the idea of gun control is a t…

Or what about people who feel bad that these things happen, but believe it’s the cost of living in a free society? Every system has trade offs. You can be sympathetic about the system having downsides while still believing that the system is better than the alternatives. There is absolutely nothing inconsistent about it.

To use a less charged example: developers might feel bad for novice users who get computer viruses on Windows or Mac OS. They might even help people out. And that’s entirely consistent with those sample people opposing locking down Windows and MacOS like iOS in the name of security.