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Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

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161–170 of 337 posts

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#161

Why should the likes of Fox News be exempt

I don't think they are. Fox News as slanted as it is, doesn't endorse terrorism or anything along these lines the way some internet communities or message boards do. There's really no comparison between even the worst tabloid newspaper and some of the stuff that festers on the internet.

> doesn't endorse terrorism

The use propaganda to make people support the war effort against the Middle East. Ask people in the Middle East who the terrorists are.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#162

This just sounds like a giant can of worms that is going to blow up in people's faces. Remove for a moment any potential future government alignments, just so we aren't talking about hypothetical fictitious governments. Let's just examine the governments currently signed to it. Indonesia has harsh religious laws, crack downs on illegal reporting, and literally raids on LGBTQ gatherings. The Senegal government arbitra…

"Let's just examine the governments currently signed to it." You picked three. How about Australia, Canada, European Commission, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Jordan, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom. Are you going to examine those? Most of those are the most free, most protective countries. "The hate isn't "spreading through social media" the hate and the fear were alread…

"Are you going to examine those? Most of those are the most free, most protective countries."

I could I suppose go over more of them. The point though, that I was making when I mentioned in exempting fictitious future governments, is that it can be used NOW by real governments. Sure there will be nations that don't abuse it indefinitely, but you can't ensure a governments intent 5 years from now let alone 50. There are plenty of cases I could see in some of those nations where it could be used against the people that may be less black and white, like organization efforts for the yellow vest protests being censored and removed or any peaceful protest that could get out of hand for that matter. Or maybe even Google and Facebook making anti-tech protests less visible because black bloc may show up.

"There have always been incredibly ignorant beliefs like flat Earth, anti-vaccine, etc. Usually it is isolated and the community -- the village -- keeps it in check and provides a pressure valve."

Well for one the idea of a "non geocentric universe" literally had a man burned at the stake for blasphemy, people were burned as witches, religious wars were all over the planet, so the problem isn't technology, it's humans. And I'd argue the only thing that has made us more tolerant is the freedom of information, the freedom of speech, and the exposure to ideas. Debate changes minds, telling them to stay hermits doesn't. Not only does it not change minds though, as others have pointed out, in this age, the intolerant will spread their message somehow some way.

I would also argue, that the bubble you are talking about doesn't have much to do with the ability to connect and instead has more to do with the way social media has designed their platforms. They are just like casinos. Just look at twitter. There is no down thumb, only likes and views. So you don't get the "oh you lose" social cue, you only get the flashy bling of increasing likes and views. In normal society you get a disgusted look or ridiculing laughs to tell you if you are saying something unacceptable in public. But that's not how "social" media works. And I think that specific point is what needs to be worked on. So I think we might have a common agreement in that at least. But I still think censoring is the wrong way to go. Just let the world see the true social acceptance score and I think you will see a lot of that isolation of bad ideas.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#163
post #55
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live streaming murder is horrifying.

I thought that (as an example) the pioneering video recording of the Vietnam war was essentially in shaping the US American public opinion on the war matter. I could be wrong, but it wasn't seen as something horrifying back then. It's of course the actual murder which is horrifying. The problem isn't the documentation, but how we as a global society chooses to work with those documents. I'm not particularly deep into…

> an agenda to purge whole vaguely defined categories of content from the internet.

But that's not the agenda proposed at all. The agenda is to prevent violent extremism and terrorism promoting content from spreading on social media, not stopping war reporting.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#164

Preventing viral spreading of the videos I think is unquestionably ideal, but there's also a section in this "Call" stating another goal, to "Counter the drivers of terrorism ... to resist ideology and narratives... through education and building media literacy..." [some words removed so the message is less hidden]. It's hard not to suspect political motivation, given that Internet platforms are turf wars for politic…

Imagine the next "favorite" presidential candidate that has $1.4 billion in corporate funding. But late in the game it seems like the people may actually vote for her opponent. What is this corporate money to do? Why, implicate her opponent's followers in some kind of "terrorist" act and get their forum taken down due to the "call" and "lessons learned from the tragedy"

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#165
post #150

This just sounds like a giant can of worms that is going to blow up in people's faces. Remove for a moment any potential future government alignments, just so we aren't talking about hypothetical fictitious governments. Let's just examine the governments currently signed to it. Indonesia has harsh religious laws, crack downs on illegal reporting, and literally raids on LGBTQ gatherings. The Senegal government arbitra…

>Let's just examine the governments currently signed to it. The interesting thing is that this really doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things. Consider weapons treaties, like the UN ones banning the use of land mines and cluster munitions. The only countries that have signed them either don't have any reason to use them, or are allied with a nation that hasn't signed that treaty. This is much the same…

That's true. I never thought of it that way. I mean I hope the effort would evolve into something more sensible but you don't know with the willingness of brilliant people signing on to bad ideas.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#166

I find it problematic that there have been oodles of very classical kinds of 'terrorism' and 'extremism' on Social Media since the start. ISIS has been recruiting with absolutely brutal kind of stuff on Twitter, etc.. But now we have this nutbar thing in New Zealand and it's a 'global action'? Aside from the complications mentioned in some other comments ... ... the Jacinda / Trudeau / Macron triumvirate I think were…

Because it's against the narrative. ISIS stuff was ignored because of "mah islamophobia", but can't ignore "evil white people" and we must call for global action.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#167
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poster probably means that NK is NK, because of its own extremist ideology. So the only way to really get rid of extremists seems to be to become more extreme than them.

If that's the meaning, then extremism led to the US, France, and a number of other countries.

I didn't say it was the only way of getting rid of extremism. I'd even argue that getting rid of extremism by installing a extremist regime makes as much sense as chopping a leg off because you want to get rid of a headache.

It is important to remember, that no nation no matter how great its tales of freedom or historic shame might be is immune against extremism.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Let's just examine the governments currently signed to it." You picked three. How about Australia, Canada, European Commission, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Jordan, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, Sweden, United Kingdom. Are you going to examine those? Most of those are the most free, most protective countries. "The hate isn't "spreading through social media" the hate and the fear were alread…

"Are you going to examine those? Most of those are the most free, most protective countries." I could I suppose go over more of them. The point though, that I was making when I mentioned in exempting fictitious future governments, is that it can be used NOW by real governments. Sure there will be nations that don't abuse it indefinitely, but you can't ensure a governments intent 5 years from now let alone 50. There a…

But for your example it isn't needed whatsoever. They do what they want without it. Denigrating a good initiative by association with a small number of suspect participants is not convincing.

"Or maybe even Google and Facebook making anti-tech protests less visible because black bloc may show up."

Google and Facebook can do anything and everything they want right now. And we know that they, among others, bring forward the most contentious and the most divisive because it draws engagement. We know that they immerse people in their own filter bubble where suddenly they live in a world where seemingly everyone is a flat Earther, or believes in Pizzagate, or whatever.

"so the problem isn't technology, it's humans"

This is specious. In a period of ignorance, ignorance reigned supreme (not to mention a theocracy, which is dangerously close to re-emerging in the US). We now, at least in some realms, have an ability to reason and to cite and use fact.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#169
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other incentive option is to charge the platform for the violation. Aka, remove Section 230. If the platform was to be charged for posting dangerous content, the platform would magically be able to largely prevent it overnight.

Charge them with what? In the US there is nothing illegal about being a Nazi. There is nothing illegal in selling Mein Kampf etc.

please don't compare selling a book with being a nazi.

Re: Tech companies and governments sign up to Christchurch Call agreement

#170
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all mass shootings stem from extremism. Gang violence also falls under the same definition. Also from the business insider: "There is no broadly accepted definition of a mass shooting. The Gun Violence Archive defines a mass shooting as a single incident in which four or more people, not including the shooter, are "shot and/or killed" at "the same general time and location." Another source suggests that death rat…

> Another source suggests that death rate from "Islamic terrorism" in the US is somewhere around 1 in 3,500,000. Yeah, that can't be right. Or, it can be, if one only takes into account years after 2001, when at least 3000 people were killed, or 1 in 100 000 US residents.

The 1 in 3,500,000 rate is for years 1975 to 2015 and includes the 9/11 attack. Since 2001, the rate is about 6 deaths per year for a total of 100 over 17 years. This gives a post 2001 rate of less than one in 50 million.

See page 4 of the previously referenced document.

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