Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

idiallo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 458 posts

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#321

Post by _bxg1 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #165
_bxg1 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the relevance of that Wikipedia article

That nerve is a popular example of an optimization process that produced a local maximum which is highly sub-optimal. For various evolutionary reasons, a nerve routing that was direct and sensible when the aorta passed to, say, the gills of a fish, now makes a silly, circuitous route in modern mammals from the brain, down under the aorta near the heart, and back up into the neck...close to the brain. Natural selectio…

Thanks for the context.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#322

Post by x0x0 »

Bokanovsky wrote: post #227
crispyambulance wrote: post #178

My parents had been running their own tailor shop in the 80's, barely making ends meet, pulling in less than $20K a year. It wasn't for lack of business, father was a master tailor trained in Italy and capable of elite bespoke craftsmanship. They had as much business as they could handle. The problem was that they were charging what they thought the work was worth rather than what their customers were willing to pay.…

This is a classic example of a Veblen good [1]. "Veblen goods are types of luxury goods for which the quantity demanded increases as the price increases, an apparent contradiction of the law of demand, resulting in an upward-sloping demand curve. Some goods become more desirable because of their high prices." The suits are expensive, so they must be good. It's also a status signal to others that you can afford such g…

Maybe, but not necessarily.

When I price out eg contractors, I know roughly what a senior SE should cost. Where I live, that's $150/hour.

If you come in at $75, I don't assume you're a bargain. I assume there's something wrong with you. Either you're not good, or are just starting out, or whatever the case may be.

In this case, just like I bet the tailor, the point isn't paying more for status. The point is that a service should cost X, so someone going way under cost worries the buyer.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#323

Post by petercooper »

bonoboTP wrote: post #295
noir_lord wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the first web systems I ever put into production (still in use other than modernization I went 5 years without a bug report which still astounds me) after I jumped from desktop to web I charged £1500 for (it was about 20 hours actual work the rest was spent learning the right way to do things), did the job over 6 weeks. Client let slip they'd been quoted £11,000 for it and 3mths. Next job they asked me to do w…

As a European I wonder how much this whole discussion translates to Europe (and its countries more specifically). American professionals seem to be dealing in ridiculously, obscenely high payments, seen from my personal vantage point. But that's also because money has an enormous role in life there. If you have money you are someone. You are someone to the extent of how much money you have. More generally I wonder ho…

Maybe it's because the most common stories of this type from the US are about corporate environments rather than small businesses. European corporations also spend obscene amounts of money on services and contractors, but few of us get anywhere near it, and large European companies tend to be more conservative in procurement and rely on big names or the "old boy's network" more.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#324

Post by osrec »

mprev wrote: post #318
osrec wrote: post #12

You should try working in an investment bank as a contractor. You need to find the right team, but a lot of them are massive collections of people doing virtually nothing but getting paid great daily rates. The trick is to look busy and wrap your team/yourself in a perceived sense of enigma and complexity. If you play your cards right, you can end up in a situation where no one will ask questions as long as you fire…

Ugh, but who wants to do nothing all day? You get one life; why waste your days?

I agree with you, but a lot of people are happy to take the money for doing nothing. Sometimes this is driven by lack of capability - if you're not good at much, not very driven but still want a great income and lifestyle, this sorta hits the sweet spot.

Also a lot of these people lie to themselves about their own importance, in order to have a (false) sense of self worth (but they're okay with it).

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#326

Post by droithomme »

Wistar wrote: post #280
aequitas wrote: post #231

A valuable lesson I learned at a young age from one of my first 'customers' when doing computer repair jobs for friends and neighbours was is that you don't get paid for what you can or do but for the value you add or time (money) you save someone. Most of the time the problems I had to solve where easy ones. Install printer, update software, remove toolbars, email settings, etc. All 5 minute work jobs, seldom totall…

The (probably apocryphal) Picasso napkin story: Picasso is sitting in a Paris cafe when a fan approaches the artist and asks that he make a quick sketch on a paper napkin. Picasso acquiesces, draws his dove and promptly hands it back to his admirer along with an ask for a rather large sum of money. The fan is flummoxed. “How can you ask for so much? It took you only a minute to draw this.” To which Picasso replies, "…

> “How can you ask for so much? It took you only a minute to draw this.”

translation: I expected to pay $5 for this napkin drawing, and later sell it for $10,000. Then you asked me $1000 for the drawing. That means you just tried to steal $995 from me. Outrageous! You are a thief, Mr. Picasso!

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#327

Post by otakucode »

Companies don't seem to realize that the bad practices they engage in are actively harmful to themselves financially. Maintaining that office that doesn't produce as much value as it destroys in expense. Not investing in IT infrastructure (whether real or virtual). Not actively working on making communication efficient and valuable. These things don't just get on peoples nerves, they cost money.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#328

Post by mr_toad »

_bxg1 wrote: post #61
sharkweek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big companies (rather, people at big companies) WANT to spend money on this kind of stuff for all sorts of reasons. -A team might have use-it-or-lose-it budget, so they have to spend it on something, and a contractor might be the lucky recipient! -Tax purposes! -Spending a lot on a contractor gives them someone to "fire" when they need to explain why something wasn't getting done or something went poorly! The list go…

One would think the use-it-or-lose-it problem would've been solved by now. It's so obviously dysfunctional. Is there really no better way to determine budget?

Budgeting is basically forecasting, and in most businesses it’s not much better than guesswork.

There are ways that are arguably better, like bottom-up budgeting, but they take a lot more work, and are arguably more subjective.

Internal information systems can be so poor that the best prediction of next years budget is last years budget.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#329

Post by otakucode »

crispyambulance wrote: post #178

My parents had been running their own tailor shop in the 80's, barely making ends meet, pulling in less than $20K a year. It wasn't for lack of business, father was a master tailor trained in Italy and capable of elite bespoke craftsmanship. They had as much business as they could handle. The problem was that they were charging what they thought the work was worth rather than what their customers were willing to pay.…

I've a friend who has run his own small IT business for a bit over a decade. When I talk to him and he mentions how much he charges, I always tell him it is far too low. He sees it as being easy for him, so he doesn't think he should charge much. I've tried to explain to him that when the plumber comes over, you're not loading that guy down with quantum physics work... he knows how to unclog your drain or run a new water line. That's easy for him. He charges a high amount because his services are valuable. And I, for one, am happy to pay that plumber the high amount. It saves me having to invest far larger amounts in learning and tooling up to do it myself.

I've worked alongside him a few times on projects that his clients had which required coding work alongside the hardware and sysadmin stuff, and each time I've had to badger him into charging double or more than what he wanted to charge. And of course the customers paid for it, because it was still a good deal and I could show them a conservative estimate that said the system would pay for itself in savings in under 2 years. When freelancing, those are my favorite contracts. Where you can show to the customer up-front that you will be saving them money in the long run. It's always much easier to sell them at that point, and I think the amount its going to save is a pretty good proxy for the value of the work.

Re: I Charged $18k for a Static HTML Page

#330

Post by otakucode »

wallace_f wrote: post #293
__jal wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone interested, I highly recommend _Theory of the Leisure Class_, in which Veblen developed the notion: http://moglen.law.columbia.edu/LCS/theoryleisureclass.pdf

It's worth asking if most of what society is doing is prestige-seeking? Conspicuous consumption is undeniable when looking at some goods and services, but what about the ordinary, say university?

Conspicuous consumption and its ilk have a very poor status in sociology. Thus far, wealth inequality and displays of it are the only things actually shown, when all societies are considered, to always increase violent crime. Even poverty has no effect except in situations where it is juxtaposed with wealth. There, it irresistibly tends to violence. (Source: 'Nine Crazy Ideas in Science', chapter 1, which was actually about gun ownership rates and violent crime levels but which mentioned the finding about wealth inequality after dealing with the original issue)
Post reply on HN