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The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

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Re: The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

#51

Post by bad_user »

grav1tas wrote: post #39
davidw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem seems to be that you can't simply just go implement something independently and call it, say, "Dalvik", rather than Java, and avoid Oracle's lawyers, due to patents.

Then how difficult would it be to create a new Java that has the features (syntactical and whatever else) that everybody's been clamoring for and calling it a different name? C# basically did that, and it's still around....

C#/.NET definitely infringes Java-related patents. But on the other hand Microsoft has been working on programming languages and related tools ever since the start: they definitely have patents with which they can strike back.

Heck, they are in the same league as IBM when speaking of patents. Only trolls have the balls to go after them.

Re: The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

#54

Post by roman-m »

Oracle shooting them selfs in the head. The open unrestricted competition in Java world moved that comunity since the begining and everybody got profit from that. The tools were improved and preselected by the user experience only. It was a win win. If your product was not good enough you got the valuable information: that you should to improve yourself. That is the basic foundation of capitalism: don't concentrate on your competitors but on your own products. Now Oracle is trying to block that open market of ideas. They will be the first to get hurt.

“The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.” (Ayn Rand)

Re: The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

#55

Post by kls »

hannesw wrote: post #16
kqr2 wrote: post #11

For people who are unfamiliar with all the acronyms: ASF : Apache Software Foundation EC : Executive Committee EE : Enterprise Edition JCP : Java Community Process JSR : Java Specification Request JSPA : Java Specification Participation Agreement SE : Standard Edition TCK : Test Compatibility Kit

Another important one is this: FOU: field-of-use restrictions (in the TCK license). http://skife.org/java/jcp/2010/12/07/the-tck-trap.html http://jcp.org/en/jsr/results?id=5111

Right that is the big one that I have been explaining to people when asked. The secret under the covers is mobile and Oracle's dead set position on that platform. The are doing everything in their power to eliminate all non-Oracle run times from mobile devices. With mobile expected to be the dominate platform in 18 months and it's relative immaturity when compared to other older platforms, there is a huge potential for revenue to anyone who can become the Microsoft of mobile.

Now the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that Oracle is eliminating the VM's on mobile not because they have competency there (Ellison is smart enough know it would be a forgone battle to try to now edge in between IOS and Android) but rather to clear the market for a sympathetic partner that will split the purse. And I think that partner is none other than Apple.

I find the timing of Apple relinquishing the JDK back to Oracle timely and suspicious further both Steve and Larry know that the other has significant competencies is separate, independent, non-overlapping, but complementary markets. If the mobile market it seceded to a closed vertical vendor they are free to chose who become the infrastructure to support the new global mobile network. I think the land has already been divided up and now it is just time to play the battle out.

Re: The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

#56

Post by kls »

dkarl wrote: post #42
crux_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counterpoint: On the technical front, I see JavaSE/the JRE falling hopelessly behind C# and the CLR -- fear of Microsoft and distrust of Mono have kept the playing field a bit closer to being level, but I don't see Oracle as an organization that can really take advantage of that.

fear of Microsoft and distrust of Mono have kept the playing field a bit closer to being level, but I don't see Oracle as an organization that can really take advantage of that Honestly, as someone who has no interest in Microsoft technologies and distrusts Mono, but who likes the idea of a batteries-included, CTO-friendly, cross-platform, JIT-compiling VM with a huge userbase and oodles of libraries, I am feeling a…

I'm still learning Scala and expect that to be a good investment for a few years to come

First let me disclaimer that this is totally my perspective on the subject but as a decision maker in a company that is now looking to move on and believes that this is the fatal shot to Java, I wanted to say that for us we feel that with the JVM shenanigans that any technology that runs on the JVM is in danger of Oracle's legal reach. After kicking this one around a lot among our peers we are hopeful that a language that run on the LLVM makes it to the forefront as a replacement.

Re: The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

#57

Post by dkarl »

kls wrote: post #56
dkarl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fear of Microsoft and distrust of Mono have kept the playing field a bit closer to being level, but I don't see Oracle as an organization that can really take advantage of that Honestly, as someone who has no interest in Microsoft technologies and distrusts Mono, but who likes the idea of a batteries-included, CTO-friendly, cross-platform, JIT-compiling VM with a huge userbase and oodles of libraries, I am feeling a…

I'm still learning Scala and expect that to be a good investment for a few years to come First let me disclaimer that this is totally my perspective on the subject but as a decision maker in a company that is now looking to move on and believes that this is the fatal shot to Java, I wanted to say that for us we feel that with the JVM shenanigans that any technology that runs on the JVM is in danger of Oracle's legal…

It will be many years before a new platform can match the libraries available on the JVM. Such a loss :-(

Re: The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

#58

Post by kls »

dkarl wrote: post #57
kls wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still learning Scala and expect that to be a good investment for a few years to come First let me disclaimer that this is totally my perspective on the subject but as a decision maker in a company that is now looking to move on and believes that this is the fatal shot to Java, I wanted to say that for us we feel that with the JVM shenanigans that any technology that runs on the JVM is in danger of Oracle's legal…

It will be many years before a new platform can match the libraries available on the JVM. Such a loss :-(

Yep needless to say, I am pretty concerned right now. I think the irony of the whole situation is that much of the community expected this from Mono.

Re: The ASF Resigns From the JCP Executive Committee

#59

Post by ChristianMarks »

The acquisition of Java by the intellectual monopolist Oracle is good for programming, because Oracle's rent seeking will discourage programmers from using Java. There are far better languages that have more versatile typing operations than mere subclassing.
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