Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PHP in 2019

stitcher.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 489 posts

Re: PHP in 2019

#261

Post by pavel_lishin »

mattferderer wrote: post #205

I think the easiest thing to forget is what made PHP popular was how easy it was to get started writing software that worked good enough. The barrier to entry was incredibly low. It caused a lot of bad code & gave PHP a bad reputation but a lot of good was also made from it. PHP made a lot of careers for developers as they were able to fake it until they made it while learning how to code & providing significant valu…

> PHP made a lot of careers for developers as they were able to fake it until they made it while learning how to code & providing significant value to a businesses.

Unfortunately it also provided a lot of careers to developers who never got to the "make it" stage.

Re: PHP in 2019

#262

Post by ryeguy »

stephenr wrote: post #166
owenwil wrote: post #2

I've actually been really impressed with Laravel after switching back to PHP for a few projects. Not only is the developer tooling experience some of the best I've experienced, it's just really the only framework I've ever experienced with a high quality ecosystem of tools—from Forge[1], which makes it dead-simple to deploy a Laravel app into production to things like Horizon, for managing Redis queues. A great examp…

> Composer, the package distribution system a package distribution system. Composer suffers some of the same issues NPM does, IMO: it encourages stuff like 'install dependencies at deployment' and "why write it when you can blindly trust someone else's code". Not everyone who uses PHP uses Composer.

The vast majority of people using a package manager in the PHP ecosystem are using composer. It makes sense to call it "the" package manager.

Re: PHP in 2019

#263

Post by CiPHPerCoder »

guggle wrote: post #244
malinens wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No

How ? ~ php --version PHP 7.2.17-0ubuntu0.19.04.1 (cli) (built: Apr 18 2019 18:01:25) ( NTS ) Copyright (c) 1997-2018 The PHP Group Zend Engine v3.2.0, Copyright (c) 1998-2018 Zend Technologies with Zend OPcache v7.2.17-0ubuntu0.19.04.1, Copyright (c) 1999-2018, by Zend Technologies ~ cat test.php

The answer is: Composer + Packagist. There's almost certainly a library that handles it in a sane and transparent manner for you so you don't have to deal with the pain.

Re: PHP in 2019

#264

Post by davidy123 »

toastal wrote: post #112
brightball wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Laravel is basically PHP on Rails. They do a great job with it too.

I dunno... Their home page looks like something out of the Panera Bread playbook looking at the homepage. 'Web artisans'? Why is it 'clean' because it has an absurd amount of whitespace and comments of platitudes for the code example?

PHP frameworks crack me up. They so often claim they're "powerful." What does that mean exactly, who is that language aimed at?

Then there is Laravel, why "artisans?" The word generally means pre-industrial. In my mind, that evokes devs doing edits on live code. Also, "Laravel" sounds like something to do with larvae.

Then there's Drupal, which for the longest time was "community plumbing," which did match the experience of having to call someone in for mysterious specialist emergencies.

Re: PHP in 2019

#265

Post by fbn79 »

I develop on PHP from 2 decades. I loved PHP. I took 2 Zend cerfications as PHP engineer. After working in Javascript projects for some time on client and node.js, and after learning basics of functional programming I think PHP is really horrible as language. The only thing that I think make it still unique, is the REST nature of the web server integration. Every request is world apart. The script starts and end with the HTTP request(exceptions here). This make it really easy to understand and scale.

Re: PHP in 2019

#266

Post by icedchai »

FranOntanaya wrote: post #253
icedchai wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is React actually handles escaping properly. It won't just dump out raw HTML by default, so you won't have an XSS issue. PHP, on the other hand, requires manual escaping with htmlentities() ... It is very, very error prone.

You are comparing a framework to a language though. Escaping in PHP is usually handled by the templating component, you don't go around writing htmlentities() everywhere.

If you're dealing with decade old code that uses no framework, you certainly do. PHP is, by default, a primitive templating language...

Re: PHP in 2019

#267

Post by tuesdayrain »

Kiro wrote: post #79
Arbalest wrote: post #6

One of the main takeaways I got from the original Fractal of Bad Design post was the myriad of inconsistencies in both representation and execution of code. This was barely touched upon, mostly this post focused on how PHP has added features and ecosystem. But then so has Javascript.

And JavaScript is the best language in the world (with TypeScript).

It's sad how many people think I'm crazy when I say this. No other language feels as good as writing JS with ES6+ features.

Re: PHP in 2019

#268

Post by lioeters »

phlyingpenguin wrote: post #115
StevePerkins wrote: post #104

On one hand, I do see that HN (and probably Reddit) live in a bubble. Where most of the darling languages and tools have very low use in the real-world. And where most of the languages and tooling that actually run the real-world go un-discussed, or simply dismissed, because they're boring and don't appeal to students and entry-level devs working on side projects. I realize that the perspective most rookies get from…

I was just talking about with a student who got on to a PHP project with an older developer lead. We decided that PHP is a code smell for a poorly managed project. You know, the kind that were common in the early aughts that featured poor version control practices, no tests, no automation, live changes, live database schema, etc., etc. That's certainly not the way things have to be, but it's never surprising if it is…

> PHP is a code smell for a poorly managed project

Woo, that's a harsh but honest assessment.. Having lived through countless PHP projects, I'd have to say I agree.

> That's certainly not the way things have to be

As the article pointed out, there are new developments in the language, frameworks, tooling, etc., that support better practices and well-managed projects. It's just that the average codebase still tends to be haphazardly organized, idiosyncratic, bloated, complicated, tough to maintain and extend.

The popularity and evolution of PHP have been impressive, and having used it for years I do have some fondness for it. But at some point, I think it becomes necessary to move on to other languages and systems that encourage best practices from the beginning, with a higher baseline/average code quality.

Re: PHP in 2019

#270

Post by mikojan »

wvenable wrote: post #239
out_of_protocol wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (PHP devs memorize the common functions.. Nope (c) Me, after 5 years on trying to but still falling back to googling every 20 minutes despite years and years of using the language. ... And just writing code without looking into docs much after a week with ruby

An auto-completing editor is a big help when using PHP. :)

Switching to a whole nother editor to use php might be annoying to some people
Post reply on HN