Four Years of Rust • Hacker News Board

Re: Four Years of Rust

#21

Post by eatbitseveryday » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #6

Waterluvian wrote: post #5

I love watching Rust progress. But the #1 thing I'm watching is the RLS and vscode plugin. Maybe I'm weird but I work with so many languages that having to manage multiple editors is a non-start. So any time I have a little personal project that could be done in Rust (for learning) I end up using Go or Python instead because the vscode support is still quite buggy. Naturally others will say you don't need IDE-like su…

We're embarking on a major project to re-architect the compiler and write a next-generation RLS. It's on this year's roadmap. See here for more: https://ferrous-systems.com/blog/rust-analyzer-2019/

Maybe we can expand acronyms the first time they are used? I am guessing RLS is Rust Language Server? The URL you cite also does not have this spelled out.

Re: Four Years of Rust

#22

Post by yawn » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:33 PM UTC

msvan wrote: post #11

I wonder how many Rust users really want linear types and borrow checking, instead of the other stuff Rust brings to the table: modern language design, large and friendly community, nice type system, native compilation, good package ecosystem. Personally I would prefer a well-designed GC'd language with a strong type system and native compilation over Rust, unless I was doing something with specific demands on parall…

This is exactly how I feel. I'd be all about Rust if it was GC'd. Go is close enough that it's what I reach for for personal projects, but not having ADTs and pattern matching is super frustrating for modeling data.

Re: Four Years of Rust

#23

Post by setr » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:35 PM UTC

apo wrote: post #18

> Rust+WASM went from an experiment to a usable product, making rustc the first compiler with focus on supporting WASM This may be the most interesting use case of them all. WebAssembly is fast, but it's also not fun to write. There are languages like AssemblyScript and Lys that will let you write WebAssembly in what appears to be a higher-level language, but you're still schlepping bytes around and must build the en…

Curious: if you rip out the js runtime in favor of pure webassembly, does that have a significant impact on electron viability?

Obviously only once webassembly can do the full job

Re: Four Years of Rust

#24

Post by wyatwerp » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

msvan wrote: post #11

I wonder how many Rust users really want linear types and borrow checking, instead of the other stuff Rust brings to the table: modern language design, large and friendly community, nice type system, native compilation, good package ecosystem. Personally I would prefer a well-designed GC'd language with a strong type system and native compilation over Rust, unless I was doing something with specific demands on parall…

Are you describing the D language? https://dlang.org C-like syntax and execution speed with high-level scripting-language-like conveniences, close to Lisp-level ability to generate code at compile time, an active user-base (https://forum.dlang.org) that continuously strives to get the language improved. Its (thread-local) memory heap is GC'd by default. They also have an LLVM back-end if that is pertinent. Recently, it even became another supported front-end in GCC, alongside Go, Ada, etc.

Re: Four Years of Rust

#25

Post by mamcx » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:38 PM UTC

lprd wrote: post #2

I'm itching to get my hands dirty with Rust, but, approaching this from a web developer background (hence minimal low level language experience), I have no idea where to start. I have a Raspberry Pi3 sitting on my desk, perhaps I should start there. Congrats to the Rust Core Team!

I think rust is very close to be "flask-like" (ie: to build REST APIs and some small-medium site) but not close to "Django-like".

Re: Four Years of Rust

#26

Post by estebank » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:38 PM UTC

yawn wrote: post #22

msvan wrote: post #11

I wonder how many Rust users really want linear types and borrow checking, instead of the other stuff Rust brings to the table: modern language design, large and friendly community, nice type system, native compilation, good package ecosystem. Personally I would prefer a well-designed GC'd language with a strong type system and native compilation over Rust, unless I was doing something with specific demands on parall…

This is exactly how I feel. I'd be all about Rust if it was GC'd. Go is close enough that it's what I reach for for personal projects, but not having ADTs and pattern matching is super frustrating for modeling data.

What would stop you from using Rc/Arc/RefCell to have reference counting and internal mutability where you need it?

Re: Four Years of Rust

#27

Post by wyatwerp » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #20

weberc2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely in this category. I think I want "Go with generics and enums and Cargo" (and no, OCaml folks, I am not describing OCaml). I want to write more Rust, but I rarely can afford to trade off on Go's productivity for Rust's performance and safety.

What is it you don't like about OCaml, or similar ML-family languages (e.g. F#)? Most of "modern language design" seems to amount to the ML featureset.

Indeed! For example, it is amazing how small Poly/ML is for a type-inferred multi-threaded language.

Re: Four Years of Rust

#28

Post by steveklabnik » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

estebank wrote: post #26

yawn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly how I feel. I'd be all about Rust if it was GC'd. Go is close enough that it's what I reach for for personal projects, but not having ADTs and pattern matching is super frustrating for modeling data.

What would stop you from using Rc/Arc/RefCell to have reference counting and internal mutability where you need it?

It's really, really awkward to use them everywhere.

Re: Four Years of Rust

#29

Post by runevault » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:39 PM UTC

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #21

steveklabnik wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're embarking on a major project to re-architect the compiler and write a next-generation RLS. It's on this year's roadmap. See here for more: https://ferrous-systems.com/blog/rust-analyzer-2019/

Maybe we can expand acronyms the first time they are used? I am guessing RLS is Rust Language Server? The URL you cite also does not have this spelled out.

since no one else has answered you yet, RLS is Rust Language Server.

Re: Four Years of Rust

#30

Post by yawn » Wed, May 15, 2019, 3:40 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #20

weberc2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm definitely in this category. I think I want "Go with generics and enums and Cargo" (and no, OCaml folks, I am not describing OCaml). I want to write more Rust, but I rarely can afford to trade off on Go's productivity for Rust's performance and safety.

What is it you don't like about OCaml, or similar ML-family languages (e.g. F#)? Most of "modern language design" seems to amount to the ML featureset.

Not the grandparent, but...

OCaml: multicore, standard library situation (which one?) is a mess, adoption. F#: Have to deal with null and lack of ADTs when you interact with .NET (or JS for Fable) standard lib. The tooling situation in F# has been a mess since .NET Core, especially in Linux. Treated as a 2nd class citizen by MS.