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PHP in 2019

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Re: PHP in 2019

#111

Post by pdimitar »

simion314 wrote: post #76
pdimitar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your points -- but then it turns out that PHP is still the same old crappy language it was ten years ago.

Is that and more, I mean everyone uses classes and namespaces now and structures code better so there is this improvement. Projects use autoloaders now and things again are better. Have a look for example http://image.intervention.io/getting_started/installation how you would resize an image if you used a framework, it is much different then you would see in a code that was written 20 years ago.

My point was, people can still shoot themselves in the foot if they read an old tutorial. This should not be possible in newer versions. That would be a true improvement in my eyes.

Re: PHP in 2019

#112

Post by toastal »

brightball wrote: post #54
cntainer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, Laravel provides the best dev experience in the PHP world. The funny thing is that Laravel basically took the Ruby on Rails philosophy and applied it to PHP. Just looking at their site it's clear they have a very similar vision: simple, fast and fun. One can always find differences but the basic principles are the same. IMO this is great kudos to the Laravel guys, whatever language I use I always look for the…

Yep. Laravel is basically PHP on Rails. They do a great job with it too.

I dunno... Their home page looks like something out of the Panera Bread playbook looking at the homepage. 'Web artisans'? Why is it 'clean' because it has an absurd amount of whitespace and comments of platitudes for the code example?

Re: PHP in 2019

#114

Post by alfonsodev »

nickjj wrote: post #27
owenwil wrote: post #2

I've actually been really impressed with Laravel after switching back to PHP for a few projects. Not only is the developer tooling experience some of the best I've experienced, it's just really the only framework I've ever experienced with a high quality ecosystem of tools—from Forge[1], which makes it dead-simple to deploy a Laravel app into production to things like Horizon, for managing Redis queues. A great examp…

There are comparable things with other frameworks too. For example I wrote a course on building a SAAS app with Flask. It's available at: https://buildasaasappwithflask.com/ It covers everything about user registration, profiles, subscription billing, 1 time billing, invoicing, and about 50 other things you would likely want to do in a SAAS app or any application really. The course comes with the source code along wi…

Nice! It looks very nice and complete. I've found this other one in Go lang https://buildsaasappingo.com (I'm not affiliated nor tested it) I think it is a good idea to turn something that you need for yourself into a side income, I've though about doing this same thing myself in a different language.

What can you tell about your experience building this course, is it worth it ? rewarding ? Did you find difficult to promote it ? what are the main channels to adquiere customers ?

And if you don't mind sharing some numbers, how many people purchased it so far?

I'd like to get an idea on how profitable (or not) and personally rewarding are type of courses, to motivate myself and write one of these one day.

thank you!

edit: I'm thinking maybe that was too many questions, sorry if so, you could create a "meta-course" on explaining all these things and I'd buy it! :)))

Re: PHP in 2019

#115

Post by phlyingpenguin »

StevePerkins wrote: post #104

On one hand, I do see that HN (and probably Reddit) live in a bubble. Where most of the darling languages and tools have very low use in the real-world. And where most of the languages and tooling that actually run the real-world go un-discussed, or simply dismissed, because they're boring and don't appeal to students and entry-level devs working on side projects. I realize that the perspective most rookies get from…

I was just talking about with a student who got on to a PHP project with an older developer lead. We decided that PHP is a code smell for a poorly managed project. You know, the kind that were common in the early aughts that featured poor version control practices, no tests, no automation, live changes, live database schema, etc., etc. That's certainly not the way things have to be, but it's never surprising if it is. The root cause is the developer in charge and their reports, but PHP usage is an easy marker to check. We found most examples using other languages (you mention) to be generally better managed in our area/sampling.

Re: PHP in 2019

#116

Post by joelbluminator »

coblers wrote: post #21

Maybe it isn't, but other languages/frameworks have improved the past ten years as well. I don't see the selling point in building something in PHP in 2019 when you have similar if not better/more mature languages/frameworks at your disposal. Won't your prototyping be faster in Go/Python/Node/Ruby anyway, with a more stable surface to build upon it? I really fail to see where PHP has its place in 2019. For your "buil…

Very good documentation, stable and widely used is the strong points for php.

Re: PHP in 2019

#117

Post by megous »

paulcarroty wrote: post #58

Thanks, modern JavaScript is much more better & profitable than not_a_crappy_language_anymore today. If you're 60, you can still use PHP for legacy projects, but no sense to learn it now and kill your career. Market matters.

As a seasoned PHP dev, I can actually see where nodejs sucks. Things that are native functions or part of default extensions in PHP, I have to hunt for on npm or be responsible for re-implmeneting from scratch. And PHP has a lot integrated.

It sucks if you know you can whip out a single call in PHP, but have to search for an hour in npm and not really find anything satisfying - all the while knowing that in PHP you'd already have been doing something more useful.

Re: PHP in 2019

#118

Post by Klathmon »

pdimitar wrote: post #111
simion314 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that and more, I mean everyone uses classes and namespaces now and structures code better so there is this improvement. Projects use autoloaders now and things again are better. Have a look for example http://image.intervention.io/getting_started/installation how you would resize an image if you used a framework, it is much different then you would see in a code that was written 20 years ago.

My point was, people can still shoot themselves in the foot if they read an old tutorial. This should not be possible in newer versions. That would be a true improvement in my eyes.

But then that means breaking backwards compatibility, stranding huge parts of the internet on older versions, splitting the community into "pre-massive-change" and "post-massive-change", and a LOT of work by both PHP maintainers and "users" for what will end up being a marginal increase in dev happiness and practically zero material benefit for anyone.

And that still doesn't solve the problem of bad blog posts... You can't control what others write about the language, and if someone writes some posts or has a website with bad information, the maintainers of the language can't "fix" that. The best they can do is what they already do, make sure the PHP documentation is among the best and most approachable of the languages that I've used.

Re: PHP in 2019

#119

Post by cesarb »

jplayer01 wrote: post #96
hguhghuff wrote: post #41

The thing that matters is language consistency... A language with a pure clean vision of itself in which the programmer can guess at syntax because they understand the general syntax principles to which the language adheres. Nothing here says PHP has been fixed in this regard. Python made the big leap and fixed some huge problems when it went to python 3 - yes it's migration approach was a total fail, but it further…

> Python made the big leap and fixed some huge problems when it went to python 3 - yes it's migration approach was a total fail, but it further cleaned up what was and already clean and consistent language. People keep saying it was a huge failure, but honestly, I don't see how it was supposed to be done better otherwise. Either you make breaking changes that will impact your entire ecosystem or you don't and live wi…

Rust did it with its "edition" system, where you can freely mix and match modules from the 2015 edition with modules from the 2018 edition. Unfortunately, in the Python 2 to Python 3 transition a fundamental data type (strings) changed, which would make freely mixing Python 2 and Python 3 code much harder.

Re: PHP in 2019

#120

Post by simion314 »

pdimitar wrote: post #111
simion314 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that and more, I mean everyone uses classes and namespaces now and structures code better so there is this improvement. Projects use autoloaders now and things again are better. Have a look for example http://image.intervention.io/getting_started/installation how you would resize an image if you used a framework, it is much different then you would see in a code that was written 20 years ago.

My point was, people can still shoot themselves in the foot if they read an old tutorial. This should not be possible in newer versions. That would be a true improvement in my eyes.

It is a good point but it is a big disadvantage for the people that need the backward compatibility, is the same issue with C++ or other similar old languages that keep the backward compatibility so old code continues to work.

Though if you work on a new project or existing project that uses a framework you will not even need to do the bad search queries like "how to insert an user in a mysql table", the framework is forcing you to use the correct/safe patterns.

Most beginning level tutorials are super simplified and are not following the correct patterns, like they don't check for errors, don't clean user input etc.

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