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PHP in 2019

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Re: PHP in 2019

#41

Post by hguhghuff »

The thing that matters is language consistency... A language with a pure clean vision of itself in which the programmer can guess at syntax because they understand the general syntax principles to which the language adheres. Nothing here says PHP has been fixed in this regard.

Python made the big leap and fixed some huge problems when it went to python 3 - yes it's migration approach was a total fail, but it further cleaned up what was and already clean and consistent language.

The only thing that would have really interested me in this post would have been to hear that PHP had been cleaned up into a consistent syntax, but that's not what this article says.

Re: PHP in 2019

#42

Post by bayesian_horse »

nickjj wrote: post #27
owenwil wrote: post #2

I've actually been really impressed with Laravel after switching back to PHP for a few projects. Not only is the developer tooling experience some of the best I've experienced, it's just really the only framework I've ever experienced with a high quality ecosystem of tools—from Forge[1], which makes it dead-simple to deploy a Laravel app into production to things like Horizon, for managing Redis queues. A great examp…

There are comparable things with other frameworks too. For example I wrote a course on building a SAAS app with Flask. It's available at: https://buildasaasappwithflask.com/ It covers everything about user registration, profiles, subscription billing, 1 time billing, invoicing, and about 50 other things you would likely want to do in a SAAS app or any application really. The course comes with the source code along wi…

Every time I try out Flask, Aiohttp or even Express.js I appreciate more the stuff Django normally does for me.

Re: PHP in 2019

#43

Post by baybal2 »

> PHP isn't the same old crappy language it was ten years ago

But it is too late. JS on the backend has nearly completely ate its mindshare in its target demographic.

I think, JS itself risks ending up like this if core developers in Node and TC39 will not begin to think of the need for JS 2.0 and fixing fundamental design issues, and bug-o-features.

Re: PHP in 2019

#44

Post by bayesian_horse »

Intermernet wrote: post #10
owenwil wrote: post #2

I've actually been really impressed with Laravel after switching back to PHP for a few projects. Not only is the developer tooling experience some of the best I've experienced, it's just really the only framework I've ever experienced with a high quality ecosystem of tools—from Forge[1], which makes it dead-simple to deploy a Laravel app into production to things like Horizon, for managing Redis queues. A great examp…

Last time I used composer (about 3 years ago) it had a nasty memory leak that eventually meant I had to run the build on a higher specced instance than the actual application. This was mainly due to the ridiculous dependancies of the application, but it was almost a show stopper. Has this improved?

Composer is very useful in penetration testing. Lot's of good information in the composer.json files people keep forgetting to block..

Re: PHP in 2019

#45

Post by simion314 »

Arbalest wrote: post #6

One of the main takeaways I got from the original Fractal of Bad Design post was the myriad of inconsistencies in both representation and execution of code. This was barely touched upon, mostly this post focused on how PHP has added features and ecosystem. But then so has Javascript.

Unfortunately this is true and it can't be changed, the functions are named and parameters are soemtimes inconsistent like strpos and str_replace, I would have to use the docs all the time if my IDE wouldn't show me the param names.

But after you get productive with PHP there is no feature that I think I am missing from other similar languages.

Re: PHP in 2019

#46

Post by thibran »

jbrooksuk wrote: post #20
thibran wrote: post #17

I would argue that Kotlin is the better modern PHP. Beside of a lot of magic Laravel makes PHP okayish, but it is still the worse mainstream programming language.

> but it is still the worse mainstream programming language. Please back this up.

This is my opinion.

Some hints why I think PHP is not great:

* property type declaration in doc-strings * bad documentation * verry verbose for a dynamic language * a lot of inconsistencies * automatically loading of classes is a hack (psr4) which doesn't support importing functions without specifying it in a global project file

Re: PHP in 2019

#47

Post by liability »

imtringued wrote: post #24
scandinavian wrote: post #14

php > echo count(get_defined_functions(TRUE)['internal']); 1196 They should clean up the global name space, but that will never happen, so I'll continue not using PHP.

Yeah and they should add basic features like lambdas and rewrite the entire standard library to support that while they are at it and when they are done with all of that could they potentially provide a separate syntax similar to facebook's reason? It's no longer the same language anymore if you change everything and therefore there is no reason to waste time improving PHP.

I'm sensing some sarcasm but that unironicly sounds like a good idea to me.

Re: PHP in 2019

#48

Post by bayesian_horse »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #30

Rather than chasing MVw or OO trends of the JavaScript ecosystem and become more like JavaScript or Java, so to say, why don't the PHP developers identify and build on the unique strengths of PHP? Which are IMO: the large installed base in classic web hosting, and the original purpose of PHP as a high-level scripting language embedded in otherwise static HTML as in " ". There is a huge room for improvement there sinc…

I actually see no reason to use PHP over other languages except if the project already has a large codebase in PHP.

In all other cases I keep thinking: "Have you seen Django yet?" And probably you can substitute ROR, Node, ASP.NET Core etc

Re: PHP in 2019

#49

Post by ptx »

simion314 wrote: post #35
tannhaeuser wrote: post #30

Rather than chasing MVw or OO trends of the JavaScript ecosystem and become more like JavaScript or Java, so to say, why don't the PHP developers identify and build on the unique strengths of PHP? Which are IMO: the large installed base in classic web hosting, and the original purpose of PHP as a high-level scripting language embedded in otherwise static HTML as in " ". There is a huge room for improvement there sinc…

Your claims are vague, do you have a specific example of a new feature and a new mainstream framework that has the security issues you mention?

I think the point is that if you use a "new mainstream framework", you lose the traditional unique strengths of PHP by using it essentially the same way as you would any other language, so you might as well use a different language.

So instead of trying to be like other languages but with worse syntax and weird quirks, PHP could try to improve on the things that make it different and lead to its initial popularity.

Re: PHP in 2019

#50

Post by makapuf »

yzssi wrote: post #31
aacanakin wrote: post #9

"While async and await are not available yet, lots of improvements to the language itself have been made over the past years" It's 2019 guys. Please.

It's good if they take some time to think about the implementation instead of doing a crappy job like Python did.

Cani you please elaborate a bit how python Async await is crappy ? Not defending anything but I'm curious. Is it in the language or its implementation ? I've found the loop choices and relationship with dbus loop or other internal libraries cumbersome on Linux but that is implementation.
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