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Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

material.io

61–70 of 163 posts

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#61

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

I agree and I don't think following Swiss/international design "guidelines" would constraint designers about creativity

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#62
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately this triggers my rant mode: When branding hits hammers, I think I might quit the human race. Designers fundamentally do not understand that software is a tool that people use to get things done. Constant reorganization and redesign for trends literally robs people of their skills in learning to use software to accomplish their goals. I've been using computers since the early 90…

> Designers fundamentally do not understand that software is a tool that people use to get things done. I find this point of view - that designers are inferior to developers - to be incredibly condescending and yet very typical of HN. I'm a developer, and I would hate to work with you or someone who holds this view point. You seem like poison in a development team. Regardless of whether you meant or not, that's what…

> Regardless of whether you meant or not, that's what I see here. A bunch of developers telling designers that their bad at their job, that the devs know better than them, and devs know how to tell designers to do their jobs.

It's exactly the same with marketers. Or managers. Or anyone who isn't a developer for that matter.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#63
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately this triggers my rant mode: When branding hits hammers, I think I might quit the human race. Designers fundamentally do not understand that software is a tool that people use to get things done. Constant reorganization and redesign for trends literally robs people of their skills in learning to use software to accomplish their goals. I've been using computers since the early 90…

> Designers fundamentally do not understand that software is a tool that people use to get things done. I find this point of view - that designers are inferior to developers - to be incredibly condescending and yet very typical of HN. I'm a developer, and I would hate to work with you or someone who holds this view point. You seem like poison in a development team. Regardless of whether you meant or not, that's what…

Full stack dev : he didn't say they are inferior but that in his point of views most designers don't understand their design should conceived as a tool. Now that's discussable as it changes from project to project. A promotional website shouldn't be forcefully seen as a tool but cool be seen as a augmented poster. Now I understand his point of view when he says that designer use too much icons language, without any text Intel on it. I'd add to it that web.dev asks to use and display label on every input. Even tough they might have placeholders.

And no HN people are nice, it's just a matter of understanding the subtilities we might all disagree on.

Ps : a bas php.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#64

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19286970

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#65
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traditional graphic design cannot be "solved" and will always be ruled by more or less cyclical trends because graphic design is used (among other things) as a differentiating branding element for marketing and communication. And you can't differentiate a product when everyone has the same branding. Someone starts standing out. People start copying them. And then a new trend emerges, ad infinitum. Industrial design i…

I totally agree with you. Unfortunately this triggers my rant mode: When branding hits hammers, I think I might quit the human race. Designers fundamentally do not understand that software is a tool that people use to get things done. Constant reorganization and redesign for trends literally robs people of their skills in learning to use software to accomplish their goals. I've been using computers since the early 90…

> I've been using computers since the early 90s. Essentially none of the things I learned early on apply anymore. Fuck, we don't even have menus that explain to us in native language what actions are available to us.

Yes, this screenshot of MacOS 9 from 1999 clearly bears no resemblance to anything we use today:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classic_Mac_OS#/media/File%3...

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#66
post #51

Doesn't load for me in Safari, but works in Chrome. From the JS console: ReferenceError: Can't find variable: IntersectionObserver

That's just Apple not implementing modern web standards. Just wait a couple months or years and they might implement the IntersectionObserver. Until then you'll have to use polyfills to support Safari which Google obviously didn't do here.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#67

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

> Traditional graphic design has largely been “solved” by the 1960’s - aka, the International style or the Swiss style for majority of needs.

This makes about as much sense as saying music was ‘solved’ by Radiohead or Nirvana. Trends change as culture and tastes change. People deride ‘hipsterism’ but without them we would all be drinking lousy beer, eating crappy burgers and drinking low quality coffee. Trends change, challenge what’s gone before and make things nicer.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#68
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they say this specifically, grey is better to distinguish shadows but if you want to conserve energy you can go with true black. > UIs that require efficient battery usage can use true black. In these cases, some devices (such as wearables with OLED screens) can turn off any pixels that display black to conserve battery power.

...I feel like all UIs should require efficient battery usage, and UIs that don't are an anti-pattern.

[deleted]

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is the conflation of the form and functional aspects of design. The 'Stripe gradient' on their home page, and a few other things are purely aesthetic, and frankly extraneous to the more functional aspects. Most of the 'guidelines' from Material were reasonably pragmatic, although very picky, beyond what is necessary in all but the most comprehensive apps with big budgets. There's nothing wrong with some aes…

I think this is a great point. Design has two layers. The first one is based on science. Ergonomics (i.e. edge of the screen is fast to reach with a mouse, color contrast, size of fonts, ...). The second layer is style. In the given constraint of color contrast, you use _these_ colors, ... The minimalist style often acts like it is on the first layer, but it is just style on top of ergonomics. It is a good design sys…

"Ergonomics (i.e. edge of the screen is fast to reach with a mouse, color contrast, size of fonts, ...)"

It's more basic than that - the premise of UI deals first core usability, the layout of information of components in a manner that communicates information and allows for basic interactivity, and then to make it all coherent across the app.

That alone can get pretty hard, there's all sorts of decisions that need to be made. Consider that it's as much about what you don't see as those elements you do.

Then you can get into the more granular aspects such as those covered in this article that I identified as 'picky' (for example, the specific contrast ratios among various elements - this is far beyond what 99% of UI designers have the luxury of addressing) and then of course broadening the scope of accessibility, corner functions, cross platform consistency.

Even the basics of UI can be pretty hard, let alone the aesthetic elements, and very specific things.

And of course, all of it 'cross cuts' with the aesthetic aspects, which is why the disciplines of UI and classical design are so tightly interwoven.

Design and UX is very poorly understood, and it's difficult to professionalize or measure given the abstract nature of the subject. As Engineers, we love to measure things, and much of great design defies the kinds of classical measurements we are used to. As the OP indicated, it's also a field wherein it's hard to be self aware i.e. to 'know what you don't know', and so 'everyone has an opinion'.

A great UI is almost like a great API - it's hard to measure and articulate, but generally we know it when we use it.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#70

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

Beeing a designer is not easy. Other than in programming or e.g. in sound mixing, everybody has (strong) opinions on design. Ever met a boss who came into the room looked at you code and told you to use library x instead of the thing you used the past three weeks? Stuff like this only happens to designers, because everybody believes they can judge design. The client that makes a design in MSWord and wants you to do exactly that still exists — why they hired you when they already have it remains a mystery.

On top of that you have so many free templates and drag and drop website designers, as a designer you can’t really afford making good design unless your customer is a multinational company, because customers will always compare you with the cheap online service. This means most designers are basically forced to use something fast, that looks halfway decent by economic reasons. Of course there are always those who really think what they do is great, but I don’t think they are in the majority.

That beeing said, I love the interfaces of old professional electronic gear (and lately I have been working in some myself). I don’t think you can transfer that in a good way to the flat screen without adjustments. Let’s not forget the abnominations bad skeuomorphic design produced, every trend will consist of a lot of cheap trash always.

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