Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode • Hacker News Board

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#21

Post by spectramax » Wed, May 15, 2019, 4:45 AM UTC

Zak wrote: post #19

spectramax wrote: post #2

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

While the other trends you're mentioning are primarily aesthetic, dark themes have a significant ergonomic motivation in that they allow sufficient contrast at much lower luminance. I've long thought pervasive dark themes were overdue given smartphones greatly increasing the number of users looking at screens in environments not resembling brightly-lit offices. They also save power on OLED as the guidelines and other…

Also, how easy they are on the eyes - most popular IDE themes tend to be dark. My rant was venting about "trends" in aesthetics. When trends emerge due to underlying technical reason (DPI/resolution, power savings, etc.) they add a tremendous value. I remember writing php backend to process 1x and 2x images when Retina screens had just released in 2012. That led to responsive images and many other advancements on the Desktop UI side - all good things.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#22

Post by huehehue » Wed, May 15, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

dpau wrote: post #8

spectramax wrote: post #2

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

Although I really dislike the look of Material (especially when used on websites), design systems like it allow us to create consistent user experiences across applications. They might not be ground-breaking in terms of the history of graphic design, but we care more about usability and accessibility. UI design is not progressing in Hegelian fashion towards a utopic ideal, but rather it is continuously adapting to ne…

What tickles me is that Google's designs (and re-designs) are so wildly inconsistent between products that any benefit of a unified design system is negated. Maybe it's too optimistic to expect universal consistency for a company or Google's size anyway.

Opinion: I also find that, while each Material component seems intuitive in isolation, systems layering many if them together usually end up very difficult to use.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#23

Post by cam_l » Wed, May 15, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #2

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

I love it when people make authoritative statements about design. Because everyone has an opinion about design, it must mean everyone is expert.

Dieter Rams designs were absolutely based on trends, and trends which very much fell or of favour for twenty or thirty years. The fact that they are on trend again does not invalidate that. Nor does the fact that his designs in particular are remembered and copied because he was one of the best of the era.

He was one of the best because he used an approach which was exploratory, multi-disciplined and human focused. (Tellingly, he was educated in interior design and architecture.) To suggest that graphic design is solved, is like saying a radio is solved. Technological changes coincide with changes in human understanding, taste, response and feedback.

And then to use Dieter Rams as an example, because presumably you like his aesthetic, is to not understand design at all. Or certainly not his practice of it.

On the other hand, i totally think someone could start a Rams framework (if it hasn't already been done). An unholy mixture of skeumorphic dials and material backgrounds. It could be a beautiful abomination.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#24

Post by guessmyname » Wed, May 15, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

scotchio wrote: post #13

Uptrenda wrote: post #11

Is there anything like a web standard for theming? I.e. you have a browser that makes a query to some standard interface for supported themes on a website and it would automatically choose the type that you prefer. Values could be things like high contrast mode, dark mode, or even minimal (that was largely text-only.) Then there would be auto-magic dark mode on all major websites.

@media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) {} Mixed with root variables

Safari Release 81 renamed “supported-color-schemes” to “color-scheme” [1].

But it seems that “prefers-color-scheme” is still, well, preferred [2].

[1] https://developer.apple.com/safari/technology-preview/releas...

[2] https://caniuse.com/#search=color-scheme

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#25

Post by tlrobinson » Wed, May 15, 2019, 5:09 AM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #2

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

In other words: get off my lawn.

Seriously though, I like the Swiss/International aesthetic, are there any CSS frameworks / design systems / whatever that implement it?

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#26

Post by spectramax » Wed, May 15, 2019, 5:09 AM UTC

cam_l wrote: post #23

spectramax wrote: post #2

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

I love it when people make authoritative statements about design. Because everyone has an opinion about design, it must mean everyone is expert. Dieter Rams designs were absolutely based on trends, and trends which very much fell or of favour for twenty or thirty years. The fact that they are on trend again does not invalidate that. Nor does the fact that his designs in particular are remembered and copied because he…

"Dieter Rams designs were absolutely based on trends" - based on what observation? The trend at the time Mid-Century design with some influence from 30 year old Bauhaus movement.

"He was one of the best because he used an approach which was exploratory, multi-disciplined and human focused. (Tellingly, he was educated in interior design and architecture.)" - I agree, and that is my take as well.

"To suggest that graphic design is solved, is like saying a radio is solved. Technological changes coincide with changes in human understanding, taste, response and feedback." - I think I regret using the word "solved" (hence the quote marks), I think the correct take on this is that there are no major gaps to fill in International style. Vignelli, Paul Rand, Unimark International, Eliot Noyes, and countless others - they all explored the contours of design but only to realize that principles of International style serve almost every purpose and will continue to do so in future - with new technology, the principles don't change. Its application changes. Even today, design houses such as C&G&H continues to excel whist Pentagram is flopping around in New York trends. Paula Sher is an absolute disaster (See LOC redesign by Pentagram).

I don't mind good, well thought out constructive criticism, I would appreciate some more insight into your claims. "I love it when people make authoritative statements about design. Because everyone has an opinion about design, it must mean everyone is expert." is not the tone I'd like to see on HN. I shall also add that my initial comment was rather tongue-in-cheek rant, I should have been more objective and sound. :-)

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#27

Post by spectramax » Wed, May 15, 2019, 5:13 AM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #25

spectramax wrote: post #2

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

In other words: get off my lawn. Seriously though, I like the Swiss/International aesthetic, are there any CSS frameworks / design systems / whatever that implement it?

http://tachyons.io comes to mind.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#28

Post by sonnyblarney » Wed, May 15, 2019, 5:35 AM UTC

cam_l wrote: post #23

spectramax wrote: post #2

I have a deep rooted issue with design and designers. In 90’s, skeuomorphic trend was picking up steam reaching a climax in mid-2000’s. Web 2.0 design elements were springing up, taking advantage of css; while UI elements sought transparency and blur (Windows Vista). That trend passed and then we had the whole Material design boom in 2012-2015, the entire web was sabotaged by Bootstrap. Color themes and palettes were…

I love it when people make authoritative statements about design. Because everyone has an opinion about design, it must mean everyone is expert. Dieter Rams designs were absolutely based on trends, and trends which very much fell or of favour for twenty or thirty years. The fact that they are on trend again does not invalidate that. Nor does the fact that his designs in particular are remembered and copied because he…

The issue is the conflation of the form and functional aspects of design.

The 'Stripe gradient' on their home page, and a few other things are purely aesthetic, and frankly extraneous to the more functional aspects.

Most of the 'guidelines' from Material were reasonably pragmatic, although very picky, beyond what is necessary in all but the most comprehensive apps with big budgets.

There's nothing wrong with some aesthetic on a home page, and such things will always be trendy and evolving.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#29

Post by sonnyblarney » Wed, May 15, 2019, 5:37 AM UTC

huehehue wrote: post #22

dpau wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I really dislike the look of Material (especially when used on websites), design systems like it allow us to create consistent user experiences across applications. They might not be ground-breaking in terms of the history of graphic design, but we care more about usability and accessibility. UI design is not progressing in Hegelian fashion towards a utopic ideal, but rather it is continuously adapting to ne…

What tickles me is that Google's designs (and re-designs) are so wildly inconsistent between products that any benefit of a unified design system is negated. Maybe it's too optimistic to expect universal consistency for a company or Google's size anyway. Opinion: I also find that, while each Material component seems intuitive in isolation, systems layering many if them together usually end up very difficult to use.

Google's products don't seem to have any kind of consistency whatsoever, it seems it's rather a function of their culture. The designers I guess have more influence in some areas than others.

I cannot find my way around YouTube creator after all these years.

Re: Material Design Guidelines for Dark Mode

#30

Post by gnicholas » Wed, May 15, 2019, 5:41 AM UTC

> Caution: On OLED screens, turning pixels on and off can cause a delay when the screen is scrolled, making the pixels blur.

Never knew this, but I do recall seeing the blur when scrolling iPhone Xs in-store.