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Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

nytimes.com

51–60 of 357 posts

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#51
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They offered a rate Uber offered a rate that was subsidized by investors. That is not true supply and demand.

Isn't moving the demand curve by burning capital still a matter of supply and demand?

Yes. Supply and demand curves capture all of these things.

Subsidies just increase the supply at the lower prices on the curve.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#52

One of the symptoms of our current political paralysis is the over-reliance on executive agencies to set policy instead of Congress debating and passing laws. Instead of trying to get net neutrality through law, we depend on the FCC trying to shoe-horn ISP into an old law designed for phone companies. Instead of explicitly talking about what protections people who sign up for the "gig" economy should get, we try to s…

You want Congresspeople who are almost guaranteed have no expertise on most subjects setting technocratic policies? There is a reason these topics are delegates to experts. (Subject to executive and Congressional supervision.)

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#53
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Deregulate the health insurance market so you can sell across state lines. Why can't health insurance companies sell across state lines right now?

> Why can't health insurance companies sell across state lines right now? Every state has unique requirements and Congress has never superseded them with a national health law.

If the Congress supersede every state law with national law, what’s the point of having states?

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#54
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't health insurance companies sell across state lines right now? Every state has unique requirements and Congress has never superseded them with a national health law.

If the Congress supersede every state law with national law, what’s the point of having states?

No one said anything about superseding every state law, just those regarding health care.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per https://legal.uncc.edu/legal-topics/contracts/contract-check... "If the worker is not integrated into the institution's operations and the right of control is not obviously apparent (no training, no work hours, no reports), you are reasonably safe as long as the relationship is short-term and the independent contractor has other customers." I would say "integrated into the institution's operations" is the very de…

By your logic craigslist sellers are employees of craigslist. What is craigslist but a network of buyers and sellers?

if craigslist told people what price they had to charge, then you might have a point.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per https://legal.uncc.edu/legal-topics/contracts/contract-check... "If the worker is not integrated into the institution's operations and the right of control is not obviously apparent (no training, no work hours, no reports), you are reasonably safe as long as the relationship is short-term and the independent contractor has other customers." I would say "integrated into the institution's operations" is the very de…

By your logic craigslist sellers are employees of craigslist. What is craigslist but a network of buyers and sellers?

Craigslist sellers decide on the price, how to exchange goods and money, etc. Uber and Lyft are not free marketplaces where drivers can offer a ride for a price they believe to be fair for their services - the platform owners decide the prices and the drivers are forced to accept that rate in order to get rides.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#57
People seem to forget that "professional driver" is an actual job available for close to a century now if you really wanted a full-time position. Uber already works with FTE drivers at higher tiers like Lux and Black.

All of the drivers I've asked over 1000's of rides have said they prefer the freedom and flexibility to work on their own time. Yes they want more money, but not at the cost of the flexibility. They already have day jobs, or are students, retirees, business owners, etc, and are making extra income with an opportunity that wouldn't otherwise exist.

Perhaps the tiny handful of people who are suing to become employees should just go out and become employees instead of trying to change the rules for everyone else.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#58
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You treat your lawn care person and maid as employees? I guess if they are full time. My lawn care is completely contractor based- they provide tools, they set schedule, they don’t have a uniform set by me. They are exactly contractors. Same with my maid. If I for some reason had an estate that required employee Lawncare this would be different and I would hire someone. There’s a definition from the IRS in the US for…

Many people do not follow this, but https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employe... > You have a household employee if you hired someone to do household work and that worker is your employee. The worker is your employee if you can control not only what work is done, but how it is done. If the worker is your employee, it does not matter whether the work is full time or part time or that you hired the w…

From that link:

> You made an agreement with John Peters to care for your lawn. John runs a lawn care business and offers his services to the general public. He provides his own tools and supplies, and he hires and pays any helpers he needs. Neither John nor his helpers are your household employees.

In this comparison, a driver partner offers their services to multiple marketplaces, provides his own supplies, etc.

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#59

I am forced to treat the people who cut my lawn and clean my house as employees, according to tax law, for funding unemployment insurance among other things. But Uber's labor force, without which literally the company wouldn't exist, are not eligible for the same benefits. The logical next step is that the company has no liability for anything that happens to you in one of their cars.

> I am forced to treat the people who cut my lawn and clean my house as employees, according to tax law, for funding unemployment insurance among other things. It's the other way around: The people who cut your lawn force you to treat them as employees. What stops you from hiring a "proper" contractor? > But Uber's labor force, without which literally the company wouldn't exist, are not eligible for the same benefits…

They do provide insurance:

https://www.uber.com/drive/insurance/

Re: Uber Drivers Are Contractors, Not Employees, Labor Board Says

#60
post #5

Uber drivers are fighting the wrong fight in this case. They should focus on fighting for a minimum wage that accounts for expenses. Uber's edge is not their technology, their edge is the ability to burn billion dollars a quarter subsidizing rides. Uber is masking customer demand and this sort of behavior is anticompetitive and should not be allowed in an industry as critical as transportation. Case in point, when Ub…

I don’t think you understand supply and demand. Forcing Uber to pay a non-market price for a service is pretty much the opposite of “true supply and demand”.

The supply curve doesn't have to be rational, it just exists.
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