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Crimes in Concrete

firstthings.com

111–120 of 134 posts

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#111
post #87
post #71

Pretty much spot on - the "architects" of the world colluded in driving humanity to misery and despair by encasing people in hollow concrete spaces. What I don't understand is how this came to be? In the Soviet Union, for example, all resources come from the single source, so the distribution of funds becomes politicized and all kinds of crazy shit can fester simply because the group promulgating said shit was better…

> the author forgot to include the Mitterrand library But it's glass, wood and greenery, what's so bad about it? There's little concrete there. I find it a really nice place, both from the wooden terrace and from the reading rooms which have a view on the forest.

The insides aren't bad. Not on in the league the Richelieu library, but ok. The greenery is nice-looking, but it upsets me I can't actually walk down there. Feels isolating.

But it's the outside that's truly awful. Living to the north I had to walk the entire length of the building to get to the only open entrance at the south. The entire space on top is eerie: wast, windy, exposed, gray, empty, with four impersonal gigantic building towering in the distance. No a person in sight, no one reading a book on the bench (no bench either), no one chatting with a friend, no one decorating their place of business. The ultimate anti-human space. It all makes you feel small and insignificant. It's the same feeling I got from walking the Nazi party rally grounds in Nuremberg - being completely oppressed by the scale and indifference of the architecture. In the latter case it was obviously intended, but I have to wonder what happened with the Mitterrand library?

It all stands in stark contrast with, say, the Notre Dame. There are tourists upfront, there are locals in the park behind the building, there is always someone reading a book on the bench, there are children playing, there is tree cover, there are flowers, and if you walk a couple minutes you will be on the riverbank that actually has people on it (mostly locals). Keep walking along the bank and you will find someone practicing a trombone or a violin during their lunch break, or an evening waltz party on occasion.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#112
post #30

In the past 5 years or so, there has been a bit of a building boom in my city. The dominant architectural style reminds me a lot of the style discussed in this article. None of it has a concrete facade, but otherwise it would fall right in line. It's ugly, depressing, and distressing.

Are you talking about the colored concrete fiber side? https://www.allurausa.com/blog/17-fiber-cement-siding-color-...

That's the look, yes, but I'm not sure (as in I don't know) if that's the actual construction method.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#113
post #2

It's fascinating how neatly being politically conservative or progressive lines up with the corresponding architectural view. I like brutalism, but I disagree with the removal of Scruton from that position, it seems political. What annoys me about articles like the above is that they seem to ignore the possibility that aesthetics involves a lot of subjectivity. The argument seems to boil down to, "of course it's ugly…

What seems to be absolutely taboo is the synthesis of both views.. Very sad.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#114
post #2

It's fascinating how neatly being politically conservative or progressive lines up with the corresponding architectural view. I like brutalism, but I disagree with the removal of Scruton from that position, it seems political. What annoys me about articles like the above is that they seem to ignore the possibility that aesthetics involves a lot of subjectivity. The argument seems to boil down to, "of course it's ugly…

Sturgeon's Law applies to Brutalist architecture as much as anything else. Most of it is terrible. The buildings that aren't terrible should be kept around. The buildings that are crap should be allowed to go away.

I think the animus towards Brutalism is far more prevalent and justified than animus towards modernism.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#115
post #2

It's fascinating how neatly being politically conservative or progressive lines up with the corresponding architectural view. I like brutalism, but I disagree with the removal of Scruton from that position, it seems political. What annoys me about articles like the above is that they seem to ignore the possibility that aesthetics involves a lot of subjectivity. The argument seems to boil down to, "of course it's ugly…

> It's fascinating how neatly being politically conservative or progressive lines up with the corresponding architectural view Only it's really not that neat. When the brutalist monstrosities (you may correctly infer I don't like most of them one bit, though I do like much modernism) were being designed and built post-war, brutalism particularly was embraced as enthusiastically on all parts of the political spectrum.…

I assume Brutalism was also popular because it was cheap.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#116
post #5
post #2

It's fascinating how neatly being politically conservative or progressive lines up with the corresponding architectural view. I like brutalism, but I disagree with the removal of Scruton from that position, it seems political. What annoys me about articles like the above is that they seem to ignore the possibility that aesthetics involves a lot of subjectivity. The argument seems to boil down to, "of course it's ugly…

> modernist parts of Chicago, London and New York seem be appreciated at least as much as other cities and districts with well-regarded pre-20thC buildings. Not according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Favorite_Architect... - modernist buildings barely show up in that list. Of course you're right - beauty is subjective. So when a simple popularity poll fails to show support for their chosen style, archi…

I think such a list would be better for this argument if it were focused on a single city. ie, ranking buildings in just Chicago or New York.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#117
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complaining about modern architectural style is being a culture warrior, but designing and building it is neutral and impartial...

Building at the high end (the kind of stuff HN cares about) is partly an exercise in artistic style which winds up being political. Building at the low end is apolitical. With razor thin margins that crap doesnt make the cut. No matter how many millions of square feet of warehouse and pole barn you build there is no room for opinions, style and politics when your margin is pennies on the dollar.

Low-income housing is extremely political.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#118
post #82

The author fails to acknowledge the enormous expense of building anything else. Traditional forms require a considerable amount of on-site highly skilled labor which is often just not available in sufficient quantities, on a sufficient time-table, at an acceptable price.

It's non-sense, past has a lot of example of simple architecture done by people without many resources acommodating the mass. Rome was already 1 million people during the first millenia, there were buildings with 6 or 7 floors, they were not all covered with classical friezes and statues costing extra-labor.

> done by people without many resources

[Waits]

> Rome was already 1 million people during the first millenia, there were buildings with 6 or 7 floors,

Did you really choose an example of a society that used slave labor extensively?

It's hard to make a comparison due to opportunity cost. Imagine you are a person with the innate competence and dedication to eventually become a master craftsman. Do you learn woodworking, stonework, etc. and labor inexpensively for years as a apprentice to eventually top out at being paid moderately well doing work that benefits a single project .... or do you learn to develop cellphone apps that get used by tens of millions or billions of people?

As we create more jobs which are highly leveraged-- where one unit of work potentially produces an enormous amount of benefit all less leveraged jobs are squeezed by the competition.

In cases where high skills and years of training don't matter the effect isn't so great because skilled industrial production jobs don't compete as much for that labor pool. But for these construction jobs, they do.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#119

The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive. The ones that survive are the ones we like and that are able to survive (not plywood and well built). Survival is the real measurement of how much we like it - it is the ultimate arbiter of aesthetics/beauty/cultural significance/engineering excellence, and it trumps all the chatter of self-appointed critics. If it's garbage, we tear it down or stop…

> The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive. This has become a cliché talking-point, but it isn't entirely true. Or, at least, it doesn't fully apply here. The best contrast to "modernism" would be the episode directly preceding it, namely Art Nouveau or Jugendstil. There are lots of European cities both large and small that were predominantly built in this style, because it coincided with th…

Are you saying your building is ugly and should have been replaced?

The older buildings probably haven't been replaced because they're attractive enough and work for the residents.

The post-war buildings probably haven't been replaced because, although less attractive, it isn't economical to do so.

There may also be municipal restrictions preventing them from being torn down and replaced, restrictions that probably wouldn't have existed pre-20th century.

If one were going to tear down such buildings and replace them it would probably be best for the replacement to be significantly taller, in order to make more money. But that might not be allowed.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, false: "Survival is the real measurement of how much we like it". Many structures survive because their destruction would release regulated toxins, which were unregulated when built.

One way to read that is the regulation is preventing progress.

Disease is progress Ignorance is strength
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