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Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

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Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#131

Post by JumpCrisscross »

Areading314 wrote: post #129

How is this worse, privacy-wise, than taking naked images of you with mm-waves when you try and get on a plane? Its just improving the efficiency of the existing system. If we're going to have border controls, why not make them work as well as we can?

> How is this worse, privacy-wise, than taking naked images of you with mm-waves when you try and get on a plane?

We don't have mm-wave scanners scattered across the country. We do, however, have cameras. Everywhere. CBP is under the Department of Homeland Security [1]. It's not a stretch to take the models, hardware, experience and scans CBP builds and use them in the interior.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Customs_and_Border_Protec...

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#132

Post by stronglikedan »

nimbius wrote: post #125
dontbenebby wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. But as a practical matter they can detain you and do a more intense search than they would if you didn't dig your heels in and silently hand them your passport. You'd be surprised how intrusive a search absent reasonable suspicion can be at the border - they just don't have the…

again, it depends on your definition of liberty. I take a hardline stance. to confirm: this is absolutely not recommended for everyone. The demeanor of your CBP officer shifts quite unpleasantly when you decide not to answer them. They will begin to lie to you about the events taking place, as its their job. This information is also valid for CBP stops inside the US while traveling by automobile. Your passport or dri…

> Your passport or drivers license should be all that is required.

Is that for citizens or non-citizens? I would think it's only the driver's license for citizens, correct?

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#133

Post by Areading314 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #131
Areading314 wrote: post #129

How is this worse, privacy-wise, than taking naked images of you with mm-waves when you try and get on a plane? Its just improving the efficiency of the existing system. If we're going to have border controls, why not make them work as well as we can?

> How is this worse, privacy-wise, than taking naked images of you with mm-waves when you try and get on a plane? We don't have mm-wave scanners scattered across the country. We do, however, have cameras. Everywhere. CBP is under the Department of Homeland Security [1]. It's not a stretch to take the models, hardware, experience and scans CBP builds and use them in the interior. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.…

I guess it just seems odd that we'd support actively limiting technological capability, rather than focusing on laws and policies that law enforcement should obey. It reminds me of the law in California that prevents police from using automated speed traps, so officers need to spend all this time and expense pulling people over for speeding, which leads to subjectivity, and ends up just being a waste of everyones time. If people really don't want speed limits, they should be raised or abolished.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#134

Post by georgespencer »

Fun fact: the passport gates at UK airports appear to be biometric, but aren't. You step into a little gate, place your passport photo page down onto a scanner, and look into a camera for a photograph.

The thing which slows folks down at passport gates (and the reason the best passport control agents don't have a jocular welcoming patter) is the hello/goodbye/talking around the manual "look at your face, look at your passport".

When the gates open at Heathrow and you're allowed through, you'll immediately see a raised bank of desks behind which sit a bunch of officer who are simply manually verifying that the person in the photo appears to be the person on the passport.

I did some digging to make sure that isn't what's happening here (all the articles seem to be very vague about the "biometric" and "facial recognition" part). Here's where I got to:

> Using facial recognition, TVS enables biometric identity verification by transmitting automated queries to locate photos in DHS and U.S. Department of State databases for matching against the unique characteristics of a traveler’s facial features. As designed, this updated capability operates in a virtual, cloud-based infrastructure that can store images temporarily and operate using a wireless network, thereby eliminating the need for the tablets previously used in 2016.[1]

[1] https://www.oig.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/assets/2018-09/O...

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#135

Post by delecti »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #50
gumby wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about everyone but I just looked and was shocked to learn 42% of Americans have passports, 10X the level 25 years ago. Personally I rarely carry any ID at all, and when I do it's a non-"real ID" driver's license, which I have though I don't own a car. Almost anywhere where ID is "required" (including air travel) it turns out that if you don't have any you can still do what you want (note I'm old enough t…

I would guesstimate that 90% of international travel done by Americans is to either Mexico or Canada, which didn't require a passport 25 years ago.

It's actually about 55%.

https://travel.trade.gov/view/m-2018-O-001/index.html

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#137

Post by chaseha »

kxter wrote: post #136

If you are Nexus/Global Entry and use Clear they already have your finger print, biometrics and retina scan. Might as well add facials to that... no wait that sounds wrong. LOL

Convenience or privacy, it's a tough choice to make. I'm thankful for Global Entry / Clear having to travel most weeks for work

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#138

Post by TallGuyShort »

chrisseaton wrote: post #13
existencebox wrote: post #7

Am I the only one spooked by the fact that to opt out, you now need to have your passport with you? (and for _domestic travel_ no less) Given that the facial databases contain your data regardless, and the amount of in-airport surveillance (in that you're not gonna avoid being observed and logged), It's more of a, "we're gonna make you present your papers regardless, pick your poison"

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

Many citizens who haven't traveled internationally don't have a passport. My American wife and most members of her family have never had occasion to get one. This is a general problem to be solved, though: occasionally videos surface of Border Patrol agents detaining people until they produce proof they're a citizen. Now, green-card and visa holders are indeed required to carry said documents with them. But citizens are not required to carry proof of their citizenship. So the statistics are actually such that a random person not having proof of legal status in the US is more likely to be here legally than not.

Unfortunately, thanks to racists, it's considered politically incorrect to even require a photo ID when voting, so I don't see us solving this problem in a satisfactory way soon.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#140

Post by alasdair_ »

existencebox wrote: post #7

Am I the only one spooked by the fact that to opt out, you now need to have your passport with you? (and for _domestic travel_ no less) Given that the facial databases contain your data regardless, and the amount of in-airport surveillance (in that you're not gonna avoid being observed and logged), It's more of a, "we're gonna make you present your papers regardless, pick your poison"

I've flown without ID in the last year. They just passed me to a guy who asked me a few questions while carefully watching my face when I answered, and swiped my fingers for explosive residue. I had an old prescription bottle in my bag and they asked for that, but a laser printer could make a trivial copy of the label if I had ill intent.

I didn't opt out though and I suspect that may have been more difficult.

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