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Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

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Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#91

Post by gumby »

JohnFen wrote: post #87
gumby wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never make a big deal of it, just say casually, "sorry, I don't have any ID with me". If they really want something I hand over a credit card or business card. In general nobody really has a need for ID and would rather not lose your business. You show up with an Amex platinum card and a haircut no hotel is going to deny you a room just because you don't have ID. When you fly without ID (note: this is different fro…

> But for SSN I do fib: when asked for SSN (say at a drugstore or whatever) I say "sorry, I'm a foreigner and don't have one". I'm rarely asked unless there is a regulatory reason they're asking (and then I tell the truth). But when someone wants to know mine for no legitimate reason, I give them Richard Nixon's SSN.

Like when someone asks for an address I simply give the address of the place I am (i.e. the shop asking for it). This works online too, Again, because the person asking (or the person who wrote the web form) typically isn't the person who made the rule, so rather than make life difficult I just inject chaff into the system.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#92

Post by FireBeyond »

moate wrote: post #41
synaesthesisx wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't a state driver's license considered a basic photo ID? There's no reason not to accept one.

Some states have still not gotten with the times and converted to "Real ID" security in their driver's licenses. Because they're easier to fake, they're not always accepted but YMMV.

That's one spin on it, but more fear-mongered.

The more accurate one is that elements of the Federal Government are "unhappy" that some States will issue a Drivers License based on understanding of road laws and practical skills, and not based on demonstration of legal residence or citizenship.

Washington, for example, is one. You pass your test, written, practical, pay your fee. They don't ask about your citizenship.

So the Federal Government says "Well, we won't allow your DLs to be used federally (or for flying), then".

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#93

Post by driverdan »

sneak wrote: post #53
afpx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like hyperbole to me. Remember, we live in a republican democracy. Yes, it works slowly (by design). But, it works. At least we don’t have a totalitarian state to deal with. I used to be skeptical of this stuff, too. Then, we had 18 years of no major terrorist attacks.

How do we not have a totalitarian state? You can't publish evidence of state war crimes without the CIA doing a character assassination job on you (pending a real assassination). You can't travel anonymously. You can't publish anonymously. You can't make bank transfers out of the country for arbitrary purposes. You can't deposit or withdraw cash above a trivial amount without significant scrutiny which is reported to…

You forgot a few:

Government watch lists / no fly lists which have little to no oversight and no appeal process.

National Security Letters (NSLs) which have overly broad powers, minimal oversight, and include permanent gag orders.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#95

Post by mehrdadn »

gumby wrote: post #88
mehrdadn wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow that was interesting, thanks for sharing! The question I was asking regarding how long it takes etc. was for the airport -- I thought they verify your ID otherwise somehow? By asking you questions or something? Do they really merely pat you down and look at your luggage without verifying who you are?

Pretty much; they ask a few questions but really what would they know to ask? The whole idea of needing ID to fly is quite recent; you used to by cheap unused tickets on craigslist (and before that from classified ads in newspapers). Round trip tickets were much cheaper than one way so people would buy a round trip and then sell the unused segment. Or a company would book a ticket and then due to a change of plans so…

Yeah I don't like it either, but doesn't that delay you in the airport a lot? I thought they take you to some room to do their questioning and that it can take half an hour to an hour. Do you just go early in expectation this/find it to be worth it?

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#96

Post by chimeracoder »

DuskStar wrote: post #14
nimbius wrote: post #11

also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. You are not required to answer any questions at all. Where youre from, where you were, what you did, nothing, however it may result in an inspection of your bags, so it depends on whether your interpretation of liberty is based on personal convenience. Disclosure: ive done this op…

The last few times I've returned to the states I haven't even had to talk to a customs agent - but signing up for Global Entry might be too much of a violation of privacy by some standards.

> The last few times I've returned to the states I haven't even had to talk to a customs agent - but signing up for Global Entry might be too much of a violation of privacy by some standards.

You have to hand your receipt from the machines to an agent who may or may not decide to question you at that point. After baggage claim, you may or may not get stopped by a CBP agent who decides to question you based on their "discretion". (At some airports, these two checks are consolidated and done once, after baggage claim).

Some people are stopped for these checks more frequently than others.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#97

Post by JohnFen »

turk73 wrote: post #23

The pieces of the puzzle that all go together: REAL ID, federalizes drivers licenses for creating a database of photos for facial recognition and metadata. Enhanced Passport--the requirements for getting the photo include not wearing glasses and not smiling, ostensibly so that their algorithm works better. Facial scanning at airports, so they can build up as big a database as possible. I'm surprised they didn't requi…

> Enhanced Passport--the requirements for getting the photo include not wearing glasses and not smiling, ostensibly so that their algorithm works better.

When I renewed my driver's license a number of years ago, they required a new photo to be taken without my glasses or a smile, so that's not only a passport requirement.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#98

Post by jandrese »

sneak wrote: post #34
nimbius wrote: post #11

also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. You are not required to answer any questions at all. Where youre from, where you were, what you did, nothing, however it may result in an inspection of your bags, so it depends on whether your interpretation of liberty is based on personal convenience. Disclosure: ive done this op…

I did this every time I re-entered the US for several years. After a few times, they took to arresting me for 4-10 hours on EVERY ENTRY, sending busses without me, making me miss connecting flights, et c. One time I was locked in a room without food, water, or medication for 12 hours. (FWIW, I'm white, a US citizen, employed, and wealthy-by-most-standards-but-not-by-HNs.) They'd sometimes simply intimidate me, someti…

You definitely got put on the "probable drug smuggler" list. Luckily you seem to have fallen off of that list but if you went back to your old behavior I'm sure you could find your way back on it.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#99

Post by JohnFen »

afpx wrote: post #28
turk73 wrote: post #23

The pieces of the puzzle that all go together: REAL ID, federalizes drivers licenses for creating a database of photos for facial recognition and metadata. Enhanced Passport--the requirements for getting the photo include not wearing glasses and not smiling, ostensibly so that their algorithm works better. Facial scanning at airports, so they can build up as big a database as possible. I'm surprised they didn't requi…

That seems like hyperbole to me. Remember, we live in a republican democracy. Yes, it works slowly (by design). But, it works. At least we don’t have a totalitarian state to deal with. I used to be skeptical of this stuff, too. Then, we had 18 years of no major terrorist attacks.

> Then, we had 18 years of no major terrorist attacks.

Maybe so, depending on how you define "major terrorist attacks", but that's only because that's when I started carrying my anti-terrorism charm.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#100

Post by Rebelgecko »

exhilaration wrote: post #77
Rebelgecko wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK this is only for international travel, so you should be bringing your passport with you regardless.

The article says otherwise.

I'm fairly sure the article is wrong. I looked at 3 of the sources they link (Delta, Jet Blue, and the ZDnet article), and they say that the "biometric exit program" is only for flights entering or leaving the US.

The TSA has their own facial recognition program that is being trialed, but currently I believe it's still only for international flights and they don't say anything about requiring a passport for domestic flights. In the past, their biometric stuff has been only opt-in, and if you don't even want the possibility of being asked to opt in, all you have to do is get in the regular security line since the TSA is only testing on people using precheck.

https://www.cbp.gov/travel/biometrics/biometric-exit-faqs

https://www.tsa.gov/news/releases/2018/10/15/tsa-releases-ro...

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