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The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

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Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#51

Post by mcguire »

"Whenever you’re called on to make up your mind,and you’re hampered by not having any,the best way to solve the dilemma, you’ll find,is simply by spinning a penny.No—not so that chance shall decide the affairwhile you’re passively standing there moping;but the moment the penny is up in the air,you suddenly know what you’re hoping."

A friend introduced me to a related version of this that works pretty well: toss a coin, see what result comes out, and then decide if you are happy or disappointed. If you still don't care, go with the coin. Or don't; it doesn't matter.

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#52

Post by the_greyd »

Bartweiss wrote: post #27
thisoneworks wrote: post #17

Thinking should be a time boxed activity, with time proportional to the priority of the thing at hand. As a classic overthinker I've realized my overthinking is a weird amalgamation of perfectionism and procrastination. That took me a long time to accept, since I've always rationalized my overthinking as ultimately a good thing. If you assume that action (instead of thinking) is the primary unit in the world, then yo…

This was a hugely helpful insight for me. First, because I found it much easier to accept "deliberating has a cost, factor that in" than a generalized claim of "stop thinking so much". Second, because thinking more really does help sometimes. "Go with your gut" doesn't sit well with me; every once so often I think about a decision and notice that I've made some major oversight in my first assessment. Aiming for the '…

I've never really understood "Go with your gut", because my gut is still my brain.. I would be curious if individuals have a process for thinking. A kind of structured thinking, instead of all abstract. I've noticed that it's really important giving my abstract thoughts a solid form, either by writing them down or speaking in a conversation (even to myself). Helps a lot in refining them, and figuring out what exactly am I aiming towards.

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#53

Post by la_barba »

thisoneworks wrote: post #17

Thinking should be a time boxed activity, with time proportional to the priority of the thing at hand. As a classic overthinker I've realized my overthinking is a weird amalgamation of perfectionism and procrastination. That took me a long time to accept, since I've always rationalized my overthinking as ultimately a good thing. If you assume that action (instead of thinking) is the primary unit in the world, then yo…

That's interesting. I can empathize with most of what you said. How do you see self-reflection fitting into this? I spend way too much time self-reflecting on all the stuff I said and did throughout the day or the week. I try to think about how another person interpreted my actions, based on their level of familiarity with me. I have to force myself to just "go and do stuff" without constantly slipping into that.

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#54

Post by the_greyd »

AstralStorm wrote: post #49
thisoneworks wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing. It reminds me of Sylvia Plath's fig tree - [ https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7511-i-saw-my-life-branchin... ] which I always think about. I've observed that it's useful to think of the one future that you would sacrifice all other futures for. Which would be what exactly do you value? On regrets and mistakes, Jordan Peterson talks about this sort of thing in a beautiful way as the id…

This is in no way an endorsement of doing without thinking, which will catch up with you and result in you being forced to skip options. At least I hope it isn't. There's a clear spectrum between recklessness on one end, indecision and inaction on the other and doing right things right in the middle, spontaneously or in a planned way. Relevancy is key, nobody remembers things that are irrelevant by definition as a re…

I don't think everybody has the capacity to be reckless. I think we are bounded by our temperament (nature + nurture). Some of us have exact perfectionist tendencies, and some of us have creative tendencies, and more. This is very much an oversimplification, but you can think of a Scientist as trying to get to the exact truth (in the realm of theory) and science as a field that aims for perfection. Engineers on the other hand are used to working with constraints and imperfect conditions (in the realm of practice), and the motto seems to be "get shit done" (a kind of pragmatism). And so sometimes you have to be a scientist and sometimes you have to be an engineer.

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#55

Post by papito »

copperx wrote: post #40
tachyonbeam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it also useful to realize that there are many situations in life where there are just too many unknowns. You're faced with two possible futures: should I go to University A or B? This choice is necessarily going to radically alter your life: depending which university you pick, you'll make different friends, date different people, hang out in different spots, maybe live in different cities. Based on this choi…

I'm halfway reading "Stumbling on Happiness," and one takeaway is that indeed people are happier when they take action and it doesn't turn out to be as expected, than when they do nothing. Your experience fits exactly that. Coincidentally, I'm reading the book because I'm trying to decide whether to leave my small city teaching job at a and move to SV to get a big tech job. And the book and your experience suggest th…

As I always say while fretting about getting out of my comfort zone - the worst thing that can happen is nothing.

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#56

Post by the_greyd »

la_barba wrote: post #53
thisoneworks wrote: post #17

Thinking should be a time boxed activity, with time proportional to the priority of the thing at hand. As a classic overthinker I've realized my overthinking is a weird amalgamation of perfectionism and procrastination. That took me a long time to accept, since I've always rationalized my overthinking as ultimately a good thing. If you assume that action (instead of thinking) is the primary unit in the world, then yo…

That's interesting. I can empathize with most of what you said. How do you see self-reflection fitting into this? I spend way too much time self-reflecting on all the stuff I said and did throughout the day or the week. I try to think about how another person interpreted my actions, based on their level of familiarity with me. I have to force myself to just "go and do stuff" without constantly slipping into that.

Self-reflection when taken to the extreme becomes ruminating and dwelling on the past. I'd say bound your self-reflection time as well. And part of the mindset I guess is that you are imperfect and it's okay making mistakes. From my experience, the unbounded self-reflection mindset often becomes the always self-critical mindset. I've often found myself in a self-improvement loop where I'm so focused on improving that I'm not kind to myself. I had to consciously recognize and break that, and then go read some about self-compassion :)

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#57

Post by logosmonkey »

copperx wrote: post #40
tachyonbeam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it also useful to realize that there are many situations in life where there are just too many unknowns. You're faced with two possible futures: should I go to University A or B? This choice is necessarily going to radically alter your life: depending which university you pick, you'll make different friends, date different people, hang out in different spots, maybe live in different cities. Based on this choi…

I'm halfway reading "Stumbling on Happiness," and one takeaway is that indeed people are happier when they take action and it doesn't turn out to be as expected, than when they do nothing. Your experience fits exactly that. Coincidentally, I'm reading the book because I'm trying to decide whether to leave my small city teaching job at a and move to SV to get a big tech job. And the book and your experience suggest th…

A few years ago I sold everything I owned and moved on to a sailboat. I was frustrated with my prior job and knew I was going to leave no matter what. I fretted about what to do for a while but finally decided to give sailing a try - because I could and I knew if I didn't I would regret it the rest of my life.

Turns out I both loved and hated it. I ended up only staying gone for about a year and moved back to the city I had left. I still don't regret that decision, I'm significantly happier now than I was. I think of radical life changes as tools for perspective, by doing what I did I realize how little of what I have I need and how easy it is to create a new life if the one I have isn't suiting me.

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#58

Post by skizm »

Most decisions aren't A or B, they're I want A, but B is much safer/easier/etc. So the coin flip method (you'll make up your mind while it is in the air) doesn't help since you already know what you want. Pros and cons lists don't help since you already know them. Probability multiplied by reward doesn't help much, since you'll really only make the decision once, not continuously.

The only sure fire thing I've found helps is you imagine the realistic worst possible case scenario if you decide on doing thing A (the thing you really want) and if you can live with that, do thing A.

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#59

Post by firstinstinct »

Related: Our first instinct is far too often wrong (finantial times, 10 May 2019, Tim harford, pay walled article).

Another related article: Heads or Tails: The Impact of a Coin Toss on Major Life Decisions and Subsequent Happiness Steven D. Levitt https://www.nber.org/papers/w22487

Re: The Problem of Thinking Too Much (2003) [pdf]

#60

Post by augbog »

skizm wrote: post #58

Most decisions aren't A or B, they're I want A, but B is much safer/easier/etc. So the coin flip method (you'll make up your mind while it is in the air) doesn't help since you already know what you want. Pros and cons lists don't help since you already know them. Probability multiplied by reward doesn't help much, since you'll really only make the decision once, not continuously. The only sure fire thing I've found…

Yup agree. That and also understanding why you want A more than B which usually leads to understand why B doesn't give you those same things. At some point there is a balance of how much risk you are willing to put to get what you want.
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