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Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#41
A company that worries about "how to craft a brand" that appeals to engineers automatically falls a few notches in my estimation.

I want to work for a company that does interesting things, provides good support for engineers, behaves in a responsible fashion, and treats their employees well. Branding is irrelevant.

Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And im sure that when they work 30 hours they are cutting 30 minutes off of their lunch break and spending less time in the bathroom and on reddit.

You feel you're paying X for 40 hours a week, when a lot of engineers are of the opinion you should only be getting 30 hours for X. Some companies will offer you X for 30 hours, and the rest of companies will have to compete against that (for now) or deal with it when regulation enforces it through labor law (eventually), similar to how unions brought us the weekend [1]. [1] https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/s…

I have never been paid by the hour. I get paid for producing acceptable code by the deadline.

Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#43
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest that the "coding test" Bonus Round has a few secret side purposes, especially when used on experienced candidates: * The candidate focuses on hoop-jumping for the frat hazing, rather than on how skilled the people giving the one-way interviewing are, and what they'd be like to work with. (In any other context, this one-way behavior would be an oblivious and kinda jerky move, and also suggest a dysfunctional…

I often feel the interviewee role is backwards for senior level positions. It should be more like a college recruiting a star athlete. My body of work is on the public internet, it's all about what you can offer me, not the other way around.

I see what you mean, and I'd suggest looking for a halfway between the extremes...

I look for collegial peer interactions, in which we have a mutual interest in finding the right mutual match for everyone.

And I think demonstrating that from the start, during interviewing, bodes well for a good working environment/relationship in practice. (An employer not demonstrating this from the start constitutes a failure of a behavioral test for the employer, if we're talking about "tests".)

Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#44
Pay good money. Moreover, provide meaningful raises as experience and expertise increases, and in line with the external job market. Don't hire in new hires above the salaries of your experienced employees that have to then train and babysit the new folks for six months to a year and clean up their messes.

Provide a private workspace (ideally private offices) where your knowledge workers can do their job without distraction. Don't cheap out on equipment and tooling and learning materials - it's moronic to quibble about buying an SSD or a monitor or a piece of software or a book that costs a couple of hours of your employee's hourly rate.

Provide clear direction, without micromanagement or silly infantile circle-time processes. Don't engage in ad-hoc walking-around status checks, don't demand immediate responses to asynchronous communications. Don't waste time in superfluous meetings.

Don't vacillate or chase after every customer request. When one of your employees says that something is unwise, and provides solid reasons, listen, and don't go around them to find a stooge who will obey your whims and slag in a big pile of technical debt.

Don't try to push any culty workplace culture stuff. Treat your employees like the highly paid professionals they are. Respect their time and other obligations.

Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#45
post #33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree the resume prestige has diminished from what it once was, but I think it's a little far to suggest that any rank and file ENGINEER would have compromised ethics just from choosing to work there. Facebook uses cutting edge tech and pays really well, I would never hold it against an engineer young or old for accepting a position that very likely offered more compensation than they've ever had before. If y…

In fact we can tell from Googlers commenting here on HN that individual engineers often disagree with some of the practices of their (huge) employer.

Then they should quit. Stand up for what's right.

If the engineers quit, the company can't do it anymore.

They are all accomplices. For whatever reason they don't stop and thus their ethics are compromised.

Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#46

Seeing a pattern here on Engineers just calling it as it is, and wanting employers to do so too. It ain't gonna happen - its the same thing as in PR-speak where a company will deny wrongdoing, speak in platitudes, etc, even when everyone and their dog knows what the real story is. Engineers will just need to do their own due dilligence and find out through other avenues what the culture and working conditions are rea…

> Basically, don't hate the players, hate the game.

What's wrong with hating both?

Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#47
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does F still have resume prestige? I predicted more than 10 years ago that someday having worked at Facebook would be the resume stain that you wear for life. Has it not yet come to pass that having worked at Facebook is a red flag? Sure, you are probably smart. But anybody that lists Facebook on their resume is going to find a lot of their interview time with me going to probing their ethics.

I would agree the resume prestige has diminished from what it once was, but I think it's a little far to suggest that any rank and file ENGINEER would have compromised ethics just from choosing to work there. Facebook uses cutting edge tech and pays really well, I would never hold it against an engineer young or old for accepting a position that very likely offered more compensation than they've ever had before. If y…

Ethical behavior is immune to "more compensation than they've ever had before."

that's the point. If they are continuing in any way to benefit the operation of a business that does those things then they are morally corrupt.

Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#48
I can add a few things here. (I'm a cofounder at Job Portraits[1], an employer branding studio in SF.)

In our experience, successful employer brands turn on a startup's willingness to be transparent. Everyone in the Bay Area (not just engineers) has a bloodhound's nose for bullshit. I can't overemphasize this—the norm is vicious, laugh-in-your-face skepticism.

Our best projects are with startups who get this, and the solution isn't rocket science: you have to address your struggles.

Marketing teams are most likely to balk at revealing their company's flaws, but what's surprised us is how often technical leaders also refuse to address their team's shortcomings. In part this is because technical folks are deeply skeptical of anything their recruiting teams want (that's another story), but it's also a function of embarrassment...or even outright shame.

The classic case is the eng leader at a small startup who was previously at a FAANG company. They've spent the last few years as part of a well-oiled machine—but now everything is broken! Processes aren't just inefficient—they don't exist! The mobile app doesn't just suck—nobody knows how to fix it because that one guy who built it ditched for a FAANG job! (Oops.)

A huge part of our job, as an agency, is coaching leaders to see transparency as a competitive advantage. We say something like, "This isn't about confessing your sins. It's about revealing challenges that the right engineers will be THRILLED to solve." It's not that [thing] is broken; instead tell candidates that "this is an opportunity to implement [thing] the way you've always wanted." It's not that your failure to build [blah] is hurting the business; instead tell candidates to "come build mission-critical infrastructure." And the more specific you are, the better.

This is a mindset shift more than anything, and when we're able to pull it off it opens the door to an employer brand that candidates will trust.

Oh, and a quick note for any product marketing people who are reading this: Jobs are not products. You can't return them to the store or ask for a refund. Every person your company hires is taking a huge gamble on you. If you only 'put your best face forward' with an employer branding project, you risk emotional apocalypse if, during the person's first 30 days, they realize they were misled by a rosy employer brand. Tread carefully!

As we like to say, assume your audience (candidates) is as smart, or smarter, than you are. Even if they don't trust you, you need to trust them to self-select in—or self-select out—and the only way they can do that is with the truth.

[1] https://www.jobportraits.com/

Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im sorry but 30 to 35 hours a week, especially at a startup is just not tenable for any company except a small lifestyle company Also i have to laugh at the fact that you "just" want to work at a company thats honest and then you throw in the 30 to 35 hour work week requirement

I work at an enterprise less than 40 hours a week. I hear from recruiters 3-4 times a week. I don't care about your mission or your culture, just pay me, I do the work, and then go home. If someone is of the opinion these sorts of orgs don't exist, I put forth that they might not have looked hard enough, and would encourage further exploration to better understand the employment landscape. If you're a startup and exp…

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Re: Exercises to craft an employer brand that makes engineers want to work for you

#50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You feel you're paying X for 40 hours a week, when a lot of engineers are of the opinion you should only be getting 30 hours for X. Some companies will offer you X for 30 hours, and the rest of companies will have to compete against that (for now) or deal with it when regulation enforces it through labor law (eventually), similar to how unions brought us the weekend [1]. [1] https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/s…

I have never been paid by the hour. I get paid for producing acceptable code by the deadline.

So, when you produce the acceptable code faster you can go home earlier? No more work in a week? If not, you are paid by the hour, you just wish you would be paid for producing acceptable code by the deadline (me too btw).
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