Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon • Hacker News Board

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#191

Post by j79 » Tue, May 14, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #130

jdeibele wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. USPS continues to bleed money but that's due to the mandate from Congress about pre-funding pensions. That's a requirement that nobody else has - see the articles about the 3rd-largest coal company declaring bankruptcy and shedding its pension obligations. Is always understaffed? Yeah, there are lines a lot of the time. So go to USPS.com if you can and buy postage online. Go to the offices that have ATM-like mac…

> USPS continues to bleed money but that's due to the mandate from Congress about pre-funding pensions. That's a requirement that nobody else has[.] This is misinformation that unfortunately has become quite widely spread. Private employers generally are required to pre-fund their pension obligations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employee_Retirement_Income_Sec... . FedEx and UPS both have around a 90% funded pension…

I think the "crazy idea" also stems from the PRC regulating price increases. From a consumer viewpoint, it makes sense to regulate prices, but - again - from a consumer viewpoint, I'll agree that the USPS delivers a service for a VERY competitive price. And contrary to joering2's comment, they do an amazing job at it (considering the sheer volume).

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#192

Post by dfrage » Tue, May 14, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

whoisjuan wrote: post #183

vfulco2 wrote: post #114

I tried to get a pair of airbuds delivered to upstate NY. Two weeks after they were lost in transit, WMT put the onus on me to speak with the shipper and track down. I canceled. Amazon has nothing to fear.

That Amazon announcement was a bait in disguise. Amazon can pull this off because they have massive logistics efficiencies that are optimized for their e-commerce business. Walmart has to do way more because their core business is still walk-in retail. They have to literally force their model to make this happen and that's why you get low reliability on the customer offering and an unprofitable dynamic in the busines…

There's some forcing for sure, but they already had a lot of the hard parts in place when they started the process. I've witnessed since the fall of 2016 their sending me many packages from various locations to almost always shipping one package, and without any promises many of those packages then and now arrive the next day if I order them in the morning.

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#193

Post by irrational » Tue, May 14, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #33

What I wonder: why did it take them this long? Walmart has warehouse-sized stores that are close to almost everybody. And most of America's houses are already visited 6 days a week by a delivery person. Walmart could and should have made a deal with the USPS a decade ago. It would have been great for all concerned. Instead, they let Amazon practically own the concept, eating away at their huge distribution advantage.

I live in a major metropolitan area that has fought tooth and nail to keep Walmart out. Within 10 miles of my house (which encompasses pretty much the entire metro area) there is only 1 neighborhood Walmart that is smaller than many convenience stores. I've never actually traveled to visit it. Even before Amazon made the 1 day announcement, we were usually getting Amazon packages in less than 2 days since there is a huge Amazon warehouse in the metro area. The closest Walmart superstore is about 2-3 hours away from the city in rural areas. It would seem that if they are using the superstores to support 1 day shipping to the city, it will be hard for them to compete with Amazon.

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#194

Post by auiya » Tue, May 14, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

marsrover wrote: post #25

octocode wrote: post #8

I'm excited for the future when we'll finally have day-before shipping, where ML predicts what I want before I even order it.

Hopefully it can also predict me backing out right before hitting buy. Otherwise life is going to get expensive.

If you don't like it, just send it back in the included return envelope and pay nothing. Just like the scams of the 80's!

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#195

Post by dfrage » Tue, May 14, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

degenerate wrote: post #166

UncleChis wrote: post #163

One thing I don't understand why Walmart hasn't invested in: change the web interface!!! Their website is just not attractive at all!!!

They're shooting to keep it as close to the in-store experience as possible, in that regard ;)

You joke, but with the recent update they do have similar design aesthetics. If you're already a happy Walmart physical store customer that's perfectly OK, "familiar" is a good thing, even if it's not as attractive as you'd like.

I personally wouldn't say the design aesthetic for either is "attractive", but they're pretty clean and functional, and that is worth a lot. Walmart.com transactions are now a bit easier than Amazon, before you factor in the tremendous amount of effort the latter requires to avoid counterfeits. Walmart.com search is a lot better once you get the right terms, and turn off 3rd parties which they make trivial.

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#196

Post by jefe_ » Tue, May 14, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

Whenever Walmart is mentioned I like to use the rise of Dollar General to illustrate my complete lack of confidence in anything the company attempts. How on earth did Walmart see the rise of Dollar General and not think: hey we could do that, or hey we should buy them, or hey Amazon has slow rural deliveries let's innovate there. They simply gave it a half-effort attempt and then gave up the small town / discount markets (which contained many loyal existing customers), blinded by their efforts to become Amazon and attract customers who don't care about Walmart brand. Dollar General's stock has doubled over the past 5 years and has a market cap of $30 billion, I have difficulty believing anything Walmart can do in efforts to become Amazon will add value equivalent to acquiring or cloning Dollar General around 2009. The thing that really kills me is that when Dollar General started gaining momentum during recession in 2009, Walmart was still nearly three times as large as Amazon and could have used Dollar General strategies to put Amazon on the defensive in some markets, but for some reason they didn't and have been struggling to figure things out ever since. I don't even have a horse in the race, and probably dislike Walmart when I really think about it, but every time I see a Dollar General I start thinking about this and end up getting frustrated that a company could so fundamentally lose it's way, striving for something it will never have.

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#197

Post by duckfruit » Tue, May 14, 2019, 6:00 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #33

What I wonder: why did it take them this long? Walmart has warehouse-sized stores that are close to almost everybody. And most of America's houses are already visited 6 days a week by a delivery person. Walmart could and should have made a deal with the USPS a decade ago. It would have been great for all concerned. Instead, they let Amazon practically own the concept, eating away at their huge distribution advantage.

I can attempt to answer this. (Disclosure: Used to work at Walmart, though as an engineer not an ops person).

Most of the stores are optimized for in store shopping. What this means in practice is that the actual back rooms where the products are stored are relatively tiny (on the order of less than 10-15% the floor space of a typical Supercenter). The whole operation is designed so that the trucks can be unloaded as quickly and efficiently as possible, and most of the stuff can be stocked straight on the shelves where it is available for purchase. Inventory held in back rooms are minimal, and all the items in the entire store turn around extremely quickly.

Contrast this with an e-commerce warehouse, which has to deal with a large 'long-tail' of demand. People are used to having a huge range of choice available, and they expect same or next day shipping on whatever they order. Now instead of having say 20 boxes each of 8 different kinds of toilet paper now you need maybe 10 boxes of 100 different kinds, and they all have to be organized such that they're easily accessible to the packing crew. To make an efficient warehouse, you simply need a different layout and assortment of products than is available in your average store. At the same time, the stores continue to generate the vast majority of revenue for your business so you can't mess up their operations too much.

Not implying that it is an impossible problem to solve, simply a difficult one. I'm sure amazon will run into similar issues as they continue to integrate whole foods.

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#198

Post by evanelias » Tue, May 14, 2019, 6:03 PM UTC

i_am_proteus wrote: post #129

CPLX wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in the same boat. I have called and begged and pleaded and escalated to get Amazon to stop using USPS but it just doesn't work. Here in Brooklyn if anything is unusually large they just punch in "attempted delivery" a couple days in a row and send it back. They don't even bother trying, I'm pretty sure it never even leaves the regional sort facility and gets on a truck. I'm not sure I blame them. Amazon once use…

I had the same experience in Brooklyn (Atlantic Ave post office) and didn't think anything was getting sent out for delivery. One day I went to get a package and they said "we don't know where it is, it might be on a truck somewhere."

Same, I encountered that problem maybe a dozen times with the Atlantic Ave post office when I lived around there from 2009-2014. Sad to hear they haven't improved since then, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised!

Ironically, after moving a few miles northwest to the NJ side of the Hudson, my preferred shippers have completely reversed. USPS is by far the best option here, since they have lobby keys to apartment buildings and leave packages with no problems at all. (Even though USPS clearly has lobby keys to deliver non-package mail in Brooklyn too, somehow their package delivery people don't have them?)

Meanwhile, Amazon's contractors have become the worst option for me. Frequently they'll silently leave a package with a neighboring building or business, with no indication whatsoever that they've done so, and with no initial attempt at actually ringing my unit's intercom. Or sometimes they'll call my cell phone, but again without ever trying the intercom first. After a few years of this, I gave up and cancelled Prime.

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#199

Post by StudentStuff » Tue, May 14, 2019, 6:05 PM UTC

mikepurvis wrote: post #77

res0nat0r wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way likely for this to be resolved is for Amazon to 100% own the supply chain end to end, which means an Amazon owning last mile delivery company which it seems where most of these delivery issues like. I'm sure Amazon is looking how it can own this part of the chain (along with everything else), maybe someday soon...

They own it in a handful of cities: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonFresh

Amazon Fresh is not full vertical integration, merely seems like Costco's ordering program or similar.

Amazon Fresh used to be quite popular in Seattle a half decade ago, but I barely see their empty containers anymore. I think Amazon saw their volume falling with Amazon Fresh and was threatened by their vendors and wholesalers with higher prices, thus purchasing Whole Foods to attempt to stabilize their cost on goods.

Re: Walmart announces next-day delivery, firing back at Amazon

#200

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, May 14, 2019, 6:08 PM UTC

StudentStuff wrote: post #199

mikepurvis wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They own it in a handful of cities: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonFresh

Amazon Fresh is not full vertical integration, merely seems like Costco's ordering program or similar. Amazon Fresh used to be quite popular in Seattle a half decade ago, but I barely see their empty containers anymore. I think Amazon saw their volume falling with Amazon Fresh and was threatened by their vendors and wholesalers with higher prices, thus purchasing Whole Foods to attempt to stabilize their cost on good…

> Amazon Fresh used to be quite popular in Seattle a half decade ago, but I barely see their empty containers anymore.

Amazon has been cannibalizing Fresh by including (a smaller selection of) grocery items in Prime Now, which (unlike Fresh, which is a premium upgrade) is included in the base cost of Prime.