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We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

blogs.scientificamerican.com

11–20 of 134 posts

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#11

SciAm made the same battlecry (plea) back in the 90s. I supported it then as I support it now. But it didn't work then and won't work now. Because we don't understand the enemy. The remedy isn't messaging, framing, engagement, empathy, discussion, or whatever else rational people hope will induce irrationals to step into the light. Trying to sneak science thru the infotainment propaganda blockade ain't gonna work. An…

Do you seriously believe there is a dearth of left-wing mainstream media outlets? And the problem with the politicization of science is not a right-vs-left issue. The left has its own bag of anti-science positions (e.g., blank slatism, anti-GMO, implicit bias, etc).

EDIT: Do downvoters question that the majority of prominent news outlets are left-wing or that the left has anti-science positions?

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#12
Science, and especially certain scientific conclusions have very obviously become politicized. Yes, that's unfortunate but it is the state of affairs.

Perhaps the problem is that scientists themselves are increasingly having to fight their own political battles because their elected politicians can not or will not.

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#13

One of the problems with the “defend science” movement is that it’s often being (mis)-used to support philosophical positions that are fundamentally unanswerable by science: concepts like afterlife, gender, and when life begins. I’m not saying I disagree with the popular viewpoints, but science is the wrong tool for the job. (Does human life have inherent value? I don’t know, but better predictive models and more exp…

Yes. I think it's an easy trap to use the word "Science" to defend political decisions. It seems an unassailable argument "Who would reject Science?"

Don't you believe. You won't convince people your politics are rational - you'll convince people science is arbitrary.

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#14

>Diversity in science is not just for optics. We need scientists from diverse backgrounds in all senses of the word—race, ethnicity, gender, class, ability, geography, etc If you don't want science to be attacked politically, don't politicize science. We don't need to make sure that our scientists represent every color of the skin spectrum with a representative range of disabilities. We need objective, competent work…

>diversity of scientific, not cultural views

Your cultural views can affect your scientific work. The imagination of children in America vs. China is different, people have different dreams and experiences, etc. I am constantly baffled by people like yourself who don't understand that cultural diversity IS diversity of ideas. Whether that culture comes from your location, race, upbringing, wealth, religion, or something else, any sort of diversity is good in business or other organization as it helps you think of new ways to innovate within your area of expertise.

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#15

>Diversity in science is not just for optics. We need scientists from diverse backgrounds in all senses of the word—race, ethnicity, gender, class, ability, geography, etc If you don't want science to be attacked politically, don't politicize science. We don't need to make sure that our scientists represent every color of the skin spectrum with a representative range of disabilities. We need objective, competent work…

Except that we are now seeing this is WRONG. Look at AI and machine learning. We are now finding algorithms that have implicit racial biases because the only people who worked on them were Asian and Caucasian. Not that the people working on them explicitly tried to write the algorithms with bias, they simply did because humans are BAD at projecting outside of their own experiences and what they see in the mirror. That's not politics, that's facts. You can get angry about it and yell "POLITICS POLITICS", but the fact is we are creating bias AI by not having representation at the table when those algorithms are being built. How many other parts of science, like disease research, can be affected by this? We don't know because we can't even have the conversation without people yelling about politicizing and SJWs.

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#16
When these issues are raised, people tend to have two counter-productive reactions. The first is abject defeatism. The second anger at the messenger and accusations that they're a part of the problem. Or, in other words, talking about politicizing science is politicizing science. Both have justifiable viewpoints at their core but are harmful in the long-term nonetheless.

The first is harmful and wrong for a straightforward reason; the range of outcomes that emerge from defeatism are universally bad. The range of outcomes that arise from a worldview that everything can be fixed stem from the bad to the okay to the somewhat good. The range of results that are possible through action outweigh those of inaction. So what's the point in giving up?

The second bit is the science is being used in such and such ways bit. This reminds me of the debates I've had with people who have a hardline view of individual freedoms and clauses in the constitution. I often like to tell them that the constitution is a guiding document, not a suicide pact.

Ideally, we should live by the idealized impartiality and objectivity that Scientists should have while interacting with the world. The idea that Scientists should be in the ivory tower, away from the grime of humanity and refraining from commenting on matters that connect and are of import with the body politic. People will mention gender, sexuality, climate change, abortion etc as these pivotal points where science can't give the answers and therefore science must ixnay and look away.

But I would like to raise the idea of science Carl Sagan had. Science as a candle in the dark. Sagan would talk at length about the development of science in ancient societies, and how unconnected these developments were from the lives of the population. Heron of Alexandria created a steam engine in the ancient world, but he never applied to alleviate the burdens of humans. It was used as a curiosity for the powerful. To quote his immortal words, "The permanence of the stars was questioned; the justice of slavery was not."

Why shouldn't we use our insight into the human condition and the broader perspective science offers us to inform our moral choices? Why should scientists bind themselves into an idealized suicide pact when they're under assault? Why can't scientists bring down the fire from Olympus and share it with the populace?

Our problem stems from the fires of ignorance and the idea that someone's ignorance is equal to someone else's research or knowledge. Why can't scientists use the scientific method to investigate it and share their perspective with the world?

Science tends to give people something akin to the overseer effect; why shouldn't that be shared with the world, if it moves us just a bit in the right direction?

Is the potential for misuse great? Yes, but what's the alternative? Stagnation? An absence of the humanizing presence of science in the great moral debates? Why should that be the realm of charlatans and the working of mitochondria that of science? Why can't scientists connect the two and work to illuminate the darkness?

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#17

If you cannot see that the March for Science is part of the problem of the politicization of science, then you are lost all the same.

Calling the march a part of the problem is a cop-out excusing the real problems - the political response to science that spurred the march, the political response to the march itself, and mass-media's role in the politicization of science. If we say that the march is the problem, then we're saying that we should be taking at face-value anything the lobbyist talking heads of Fox News and CNN say about whatever they're…

>it feels filthy wrong

Fortunately science is about facts, not feelings.

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#18
This seems like another case of the left being shortsighted like when the left cheers as bigtech purges conservatives never imagining that left voices can and will be next if they ever became a threat. In this case, they seem only focused on climate change, but they should consider that there may be other scientific facts that go counter to left narratives. I seem to remember James Damore's scandalous post riddled with citations of scientific studies. I'm sure he would agree science must be defended...

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#19
post #9

You have a group of people in Washington tasked with doling out money for research. By its very nature this federal funding has politicized science for a long time. Ask anyone who has been through a scientific PhD program whether or not their field has been politicized because of grants received or not received. The trick this article plays is to argue in part that science needs to be politicized the right way. Diver…

Academia is political too. Inherently relations between people are by definition political.

The point is to raise the role of epistemology in decision making where it is possible. That's all.

Re: We Must Defend Science in the Face of Political Attacks

#20

When these issues are raised, people tend to have two counter-productive reactions. The first is abject defeatism. The second anger at the messenger and accusations that they're a part of the problem. Or, in other words, talking about politicizing science is politicizing science. Both have justifiable viewpoints at their core but are harmful in the long-term nonetheless. The first is harmful and wrong for a straightf…

Because that's not what science is. Science is the study of physical objects via empirical experiments. If you're talking about morality or ethics, those aren't physical objects and you can't make empirical experiments about them.
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