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Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

spiegel.de

11–20 of 166 posts

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#11
post #5
post #3

Unacceptable to criticize Germany on HN. Please delete this.

We just asked you yesterday to please stop stoking nationalistic flamewar. If you won't follow the guidelines and post thoughtfully and informatively we'll ban the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I read the article and find nothing in it that I would consider nationalistic or that would stoke a flamewar. Can you please explain what you meant? Thanks

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#12
post #7
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a radioactive cloud over most of Europe after Chernobyl. It is much harder politically to defend nuclear energy once you lived through that disaster.

Except that that radioactive cloud was much less harmful than reported. And much less harmful than the emissions from our other power sources.

The amount of harm doesn't matter. It's the magnitude of the event that counts. The same with the perceived and real safety of airplanes vs. cars.

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#13
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a cloud of particulants from burning coal and oil over most of Europe--- and it has killed orders of magnitude more people than contamination from Chernobyl.

Even if radiation is your only concern, coal emissions disperse a lot of radiation into the environment! (Still not very much radiation in absolute terms - but more radiation than the nuclear industry emits.)

> more radiation than the nuclear industry emits

buried the lede there

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#14
post #9

It's very popular to criticize the Energiewende as a failure because it apparently failed to reduce CO2 emmissions of the whole country. And of course, it's true that Germany could have had greater reductions if nuclear was kept alive instead of coal. But the Energiewende actually changed Germany. Suddenly everywhere you go you have solar panel farms and many houses have them on their roofs and there are wind turbine…

I agree with you. Germany did not accomplish it's goal of CO2 emissions reduction, but in the process of trying it did a whole lot of other great things. And I hope we will all learn from the experience Germany made and it will contribute to all of our next efforts.

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#15
post #2

Germany and California could already have near-zero greenhouse gas emissions from power production: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/09/11... . The technology already exists. The problems are chiefly political.

Still waiting for an answer what to do with the waste. Beside

A) dumping in the ground and hope for the best

B) some magic tech will pop which will solve the issue.

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#16
post #6
post #4

It's crazy to move from Nuclear to coal for the sake of the environment. Renewables are great when the sun is shining and the wind is blowing, but the rest of the time Nuclear is the better choice

There was a radioactive cloud over most of Europe after Chernobyl. It is much harder politically to defend nuclear energy once you lived through that disaster.

Chernobyl was a Gen II reactor. Three Mile Island and Fukushima were also Gen II. [0]

There has never been a meltdown of a Gen III reactor, which is the bulk of the fleet in France.

Gen IV are being designed to be impossible to melt down, and, to use waste from other plants as a fuel source. They do not emit radioactive waste.[1]

[0] "To date, there have been five serious accidents (core damage) in the world since 1970 (one at Three Mile Island in 1979; one at Chernobyl in 1986; and three at Fukushima-Daiichi in 2011), corresponding to the beginning of the operation of generation II reactors. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_plant

[1] http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fue...

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#17
post #9

It's very popular to criticize the Energiewende as a failure because it apparently failed to reduce CO2 emmissions of the whole country. And of course, it's true that Germany could have had greater reductions if nuclear was kept alive instead of coal. But the Energiewende actually changed Germany. Suddenly everywhere you go you have solar panel farms and many houses have them on their roofs and there are wind turbine…

The biggest issue, unintended I assume, is that CO2 certificates are not rare enough (or expensive enough). The result is that coal is actually cheaper than the most modern gas plants. That is based on variable costs, so. In that regard the renewables are basically "free". Which means that renewables are fed in first followed by coal. Which leaves not enough demand for the cleaner and more flexible gas plants. Obviously CO2 emissions go through the roof.

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#18
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just asked you yesterday to please stop stoking nationalistic flamewar. If you won't follow the guidelines and post thoughtfully and informatively we'll ban the account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I read the article and find nothing in it that I would consider nationalistic or that would stoke a flamewar. Can you please explain what you meant? Thanks

Sctb is a mod, there is a dead comment he is replying to that is not displayed by default.

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#19
post #9

It's very popular to criticize the Energiewende as a failure because it apparently failed to reduce CO2 emmissions of the whole country. And of course, it's true that Germany could have had greater reductions if nuclear was kept alive instead of coal. But the Energiewende actually changed Germany. Suddenly everywhere you go you have solar panel farms and many houses have them on their roofs and there are wind turbine…

> But the Energiewende actually changed Germany. Suddenly everywhere you go you have solar panel farms and many houses have them on their roofs and there are wind turbines. It was a cool time to live in germany to see these projects realized everywhere

Does it really matter to see all those solar panel farms if the end result is they were not much helpful? The money which went into this is absolutely massive and could have been used in a better way to fight climate change.

Re: Progress has been limited on Germany's shift from nuclear to renewables

#20
post #2

Germany and California could already have near-zero greenhouse gas emissions from power production: https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/09/11... . The technology already exists. The problems are chiefly political.

Still waiting for an answer what to do with the waste. Beside A) dumping in the ground and hope for the best B) some magic tech will pop which will solve the issue.

Breeder reactors reduce the waste by more than 95% and leave only isotopes that decay much faster.
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