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Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

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Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

#1

Post by robertcheng »

I've been asked to sign a CIIAA agreement having clause saying that the company owns all the work I do (including programs, ideas, technique, etc.) after the term of employment indefinitely, if the work is related to or useful for the company's business.

The manager said this quite common in silicon valley, even though this might not be enforceable. Therefore no one really bothers about it when hiring people/signing contracts. I looked up some agreements I can find on Internet and I can't find such broad claims reaching far beyond term of employment.

Is this common is Silicon Valley?

My worry is If I sign this and my next employer sees this, will they not hire me because they would worry a possible issue with ownership of work I do for them. Even if they don't see this agreement I feel I might end up signing contradicting agreement with my next employer.

Re: Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

#3

Post by robertcheng »

gms wrote: post #2

This is not common at all. What is common is to have such a clause apply to the period of employment but not after. Please feel comfortable telling your employer to remove it (many people don't know that every contract is negotiable).

Employer doesn't want to change it saying it's common and everyone signed it.

Re: Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

#4

Post by patio11 »

In general, you should not solicit from counterparties whether they believe the terms they are offering to you are reasonable or not. Assuming you're a well-compensated professional, which is true of the overwhelming majority of people on HN signing CIIAAs, you can afford to have every one read by a lawyer working for you, and you probably should.

In terms of whether it's a market term or not: continuing to own your work _even after you're separated_ is a market term; _owning work created after you're separated_ is not. There is virtually nothing that could possibly induce me to sign that second clause, for anyone. If you can't distinguish between these two, that's a great argument for having a specialized interpreter of contracts doing this instead of you.

Re: Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

#5

Post by anigbrowl »

robertcheng wrote: post #3
gms wrote: post #2

This is not common at all. What is common is to have such a clause apply to the period of employment but not after. Please feel comfortable telling your employer to remove it (many people don't know that every contract is negotiable).

Employer doesn't want to change it saying it's common and everyone signed it.

That's what people always say to get you to sign a shitty contract. Consider not taking the job because it sounds like the kind of company that defaults to fucking over the employees in any kind of difficult situation.

Re: Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

#6

Post by caseyf7 »

robertcheng wrote: post #3
gms wrote: post #2

This is not common at all. What is common is to have such a clause apply to the period of employment but not after. Please feel comfortable telling your employer to remove it (many people don't know that every contract is negotiable).

Employer doesn't want to change it saying it's common and everyone signed it.

This is not standard. If you still want the job, try the following: print it, cross out the parts you don’t like, initial the changes, sign it and send back the scanned pdf. Most of the time HR doesn’t notice or care as long as they can check it off their list.

Re: Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

#7

Post by gms »

robertcheng wrote: post #3
gms wrote: post #2

This is not common at all. What is common is to have such a clause apply to the period of employment but not after. Please feel comfortable telling your employer to remove it (many people don't know that every contract is negotiable).

Employer doesn't want to change it saying it's common and everyone signed it.

I agree with the other comrade who commented. Avoid joining this employer if you can.

Re: Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

#8

Post by tiredyam »

caseyf7 wrote: post #6
robertcheng wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employer doesn't want to change it saying it's common and everyone signed it.

This is not standard. If you still want the job, try the following: print it, cross out the parts you don’t like, initial the changes, sign it and send back the scanned pdf. Most of the time HR doesn’t notice or care as long as they can check it off their list.

Does this work?

Re: Ask HN: Asking to sign an agreement claiming work I do after term of employment

#9

Post by Chazprime »

robertcheng wrote: post #3
gms wrote: post #2

This is not common at all. What is common is to have such a clause apply to the period of employment but not after. Please feel comfortable telling your employer to remove it (many people don't know that every contract is negotiable).

Employer doesn't want to change it saying it's common and everyone signed it.

I wouldn't sign it. This is not common at all, and while it's probably not enforceable, you don't want to chance it. It's interesting that they have told you that this is common in Silicon Valley because California has restrictions on requiring employees to assign rights to work created on their own time.
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