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Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

reuters.com

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Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#341

Post by dang »

thatoneuser wrote: post #340
dang wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar or introduce generic flamewar tangents. The odds that anyone has anything new or interesting to say about this are very low, and the odds of people bashing each other very high. That makes it off topic here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

This is something I truly believe is draconic. Men have virtually zero reproductive rights. If the conversation comes to it, I will bring it up. If you dislike it you are free to choose another platform. It's not a tangent it's a direct corollary.

The conversation didn't "come to it", it was pushed. That's what I mean about generic tangents. Somehow we got from the specifics of the Assange case to that's-not-really-rape to "men have no reproductive rights". At each step that's a move into making the topic more grandiose and indignant. Grandiose plus indignant equals flamewar. Flamewars are off topic here. If people keep doing that, we have to ban them, because that's the only way to preserve the site for curiosity, community, and thoughtful discussion—HN's purpose. I don't want to ban you. Therefore, please stop posting like this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#342

Post by dang »

kermitismyhero wrote: post #338
dang wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. Escalatory snark and jabs like "Don't gaslight" don't belong here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Forgive me for getting angry at the wilful ignorance of so many useful idiots. I'm just kinda done with being "nice". Over a decade of vetted, verifiable leaks exposing the unbridled evil of the US military-industrial complex, and most Americans are just as lazy and stupid and cowed as ever. Wikileaks releases video of American helicopter pilots laughing while they gun down journalists, and Americans shrug. So let me…

People aren't asked to be "nice" here, but they are asked to be kind: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. Being kind, among other things, means resisting the impulse to flame others even if they are ignorant and wrong, and even if they identify with institutions that have done horrible things. I know that's a lot to ask, but that's what we do ask—even if others don't follow the same rule.

For me, it has been necessary to realize that the agitation going on inside me when I lash out at others over such issues is itself a form of violence and war. Not the same in degree, of course; but the same in kind, and that matters more.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#343

Post by viraptor »

tdcbfdct3 wrote: post #290
tarcyanm wrote: post #154

Assange himself and the rape charges have been politicized to such an extent that I find it essentially meaningless to pontificate about what may or may not have happened in Sweden. His character has been debated endlessly, but when one thinks of what WikiLeaks has actually revealed, I find it totally likely that a systematic effort was made to curtail him: https://twitter.com/SomersetBean/status/1116916146458877952/…

Who's politicized the rape charges other than Assange himself continuously calling them a government conspiracy against him? The Swedish government doesn't discuss them (which is what's allowed Assange's version of events to get so popular). The US hasn't mentioned it. The UK gave him a fair trial based on them.

> Who's politicized the rape charges other than Assange

Swedish LE when they refused to hear the case with Assange in the embassy. Whether he's guilty or innocent, I can't take it as anything other than "we don't care about the case or the victims, we just wanted the extradition".

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#344

Post by wiz21c »

tptacek wrote: post #333
pvg wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're striking graphics but that is an Assange advocacy account. A bunch of these things weren't 'revealed' by Wikileaks, the most famous one being the incident at the heart of their 'Collateral Murder' video.

Indeed, worth remembering that (Reuters, I think?) published a scene-by-scene account of the tape in "Collateral Murder" before Wikileaks ever did.

That's a rather myth busting information I wasn't aware of. Do you have any link/source ?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#345

Post by onlydeadheroes »

moomin wrote: post #282
onlydeadheroes wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's shocking to me that in public discourse being caught cheating is now "sabotage".

I’ll accept that my terminology may be overly general (and yours overly specific), but the fact remains: after Assange spent an entire election year dropping new damaging material on them, helping a candidate they profoundly oppose win power, how do you expect them to feel? As I say, I’m not getting into the rights or the wrongs of it, but Assange’s unpopularity is no mystery. Whether or not you think he’s a saint, i…

Underlying your argument is the unspoken assumption that nobody on the left has any integrity or values the truth at all. But that is not true, and is in fact the great schism on the left right now.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#346

Post by dogma1138 »

viraptor wrote: post #343
tdcbfdct3 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's politicized the rape charges other than Assange himself continuously calling them a government conspiracy against him? The Swedish government doesn't discuss them (which is what's allowed Assange's version of events to get so popular). The US hasn't mentioned it. The UK gave him a fair trial based on them.

> Who's politicized the rape charges other than Assange Swedish LE when they refused to hear the case with Assange in the embassy. Whether he's guilty or innocent, I can't take it as anything other than "we don't care about the case or the victims, we just wanted the extradition".

Or they don’t want to set a precedent that you can hide out of reach of justice just because you are famous?

What’s next should you be able get trial over FaceTime while evading the police without any consequences?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#347

Post by pvg »

wiz21c wrote: post #344
tptacek wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, worth remembering that (Reuters, I think?) published a scene-by-scene account of the tape in "Collateral Murder" before Wikileaks ever did.

That's a rather myth busting information I wasn't aware of. Do you have any link/source ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstri...

Reuters editors saw parts of the footage within a couple of weeks of the event. Two of the people killed in the strike were working for Reuters.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#348

Post by belorn »

dogma1138 wrote: post #346
viraptor wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who's politicized the rape charges other than Assange Swedish LE when they refused to hear the case with Assange in the embassy. Whether he's guilty or innocent, I can't take it as anything other than "we don't care about the case or the victims, we just wanted the extradition".

Or they don’t want to set a precedent that you can hide out of reach of justice just because you are famous? What’s next should you be able get trial over FaceTime while evading the police without any consequences?

The Swedish courts disagree. They said that the prosecutor must use all available methods to progress the case, and if the objective is to interview a person of interest who is yet to be official charged then that is what the law say they should do. The law do not give an exception that it may give a precedent that people suspected of a crime may seek political asylum in a embassy and that the interview is then located there.

But let say this did create a precedent that you can dictate where the interview is located by seeking political asylum. Is that bad? In the US you can escape the reach of justice by just being pardoned by the president. Apple to apple comparison, the situation with political asylum seem like a better precedent.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#349

Post by GoblinSlayer »

dang wrote: post #310
GoblinSlayer wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>England Buy a sleep penetration license :)

Not here please.

Well, figuratively. If respective parties sign a contract - like a marriage contract, but different - it should be good enough for a court. A contract has the power to extend consent into future.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#350

Post by viraptor »

dogma1138 wrote: post #346
viraptor wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who's politicized the rape charges other than Assange Swedish LE when they refused to hear the case with Assange in the embassy. Whether he's guilty or innocent, I can't take it as anything other than "we don't care about the case or the victims, we just wanted the extradition".

Or they don’t want to set a precedent that you can hide out of reach of justice just because you are famous? What’s next should you be able get trial over FaceTime while evading the police without any consequences?

I'm not sure what the issue is. If you are already hiding in a place unreachable by the Swedish LE, you don't have to take part in anything. If you agree to take part in the investigation over internet anyway, that's still better for the victims. (verdict, potential damages from any sources the LE can take over, public acknowledgement of guilt, etc.)
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