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Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

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Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#51

Post by taneq »

strmpnk wrote: post #48
taneq wrote: post #40

I wonder how this will play out with IP, given that Lenovo has been manufacturing a Windows Mixed Reality headset using Microsoft's VR/AR tech? They'd have to tread very carefully to avoid stepping on any MS patents etc. with inside-out tracking. Also, once again (as with Valve vs. HTC) we see the pattern playing out: 1) Platform owner develops new tech to be used on their platform, tries to foster an ecosystem 2) Th…

What makes you think Microsoft intended to keep hololens-class devices manufacturing to themselves? This could be a relationship just like PC OEMs like Lenovo already have, licensing things with a royalty. The prominence of the AR apps in windows (preinstalled in many cases) well before the hardware that Microsoft made themselves was ready for mass adoption makes it clear that they want Windows and that ecosystem to…

> What makes you think Microsoft intended to keep hololens-class devices manufacturing to themselves?

Nothing, but they'll be wanting HoloLens-class devices to be running Windows. This thing runs Android.

> We've seen hardware plays like this in the past with the Surface design which seems to have too odd of a cadence and release cycle to be purely motivated as a product offering.

As you say, the Surface was aimed squarely at heading high end iOS devices off at the pass.

Microsoft doesn't care too much about hardware. They care a whole heckin' lot about Windows. (Just like Valve with Steam, for instance.) The hardware is ephemeral, owning the platform is where it's at.

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#52

Post by closeparen »

ako wrote: post #21
writimov wrote: post #2

I've used a Google Glass, Oculus Rift, Cardboard VR systems and seen a demo of Oculus Rift. Is the Lenovo ThinkReality a real competitor? The market hasn't picked up VR for gaming and AR has flopped so far. How about high end systems for engineering and design. There could be a case where engineering speed and collaboration could increase from using a few of these systems at any company doing hardware design.

I don't think AR has flopped so far, but when it's used well it's not perceived as AR. For example, my car has a rear camera, which overlays where you are going depending on the position of the steering wheel. This is reality augmented, but since it feels so natural, nobody thinks about this as AR.

The head-up display is 1940s tech [0], I don't think we can call it "AR."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display#History

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#53

Post by HeWhoLurksLate »

taneq wrote: post #51
strmpnk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Microsoft intended to keep hololens-class devices manufacturing to themselves? This could be a relationship just like PC OEMs like Lenovo already have, licensing things with a royalty. The prominence of the AR apps in windows (preinstalled in many cases) well before the hardware that Microsoft made themselves was ready for mass adoption makes it clear that they want Windows and that ecosystem to…

> What makes you think Microsoft intended to keep hololens-class devices manufacturing to themselves? Nothing, but they'll be wanting HoloLens-class devices to be running Windows. This thing runs Android. > We've seen hardware plays like this in the past with the Surface design which seems to have too odd of a cadence and release cycle to be purely motivated as a product offering. As you say, the Surface was aimed sq…

And their fancy Windows core thingy (I'm sorry, I've forgotten the name) that makes everything rely on the same core code but with different UI things.

Platforms are great, and I'm honestly pretty pumped about Microsoft's more-open-source future.

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#54

Post by Haga »

taneq wrote: post #51
strmpnk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Microsoft intended to keep hololens-class devices manufacturing to themselves? This could be a relationship just like PC OEMs like Lenovo already have, licensing things with a royalty. The prominence of the AR apps in windows (preinstalled in many cases) well before the hardware that Microsoft made themselves was ready for mass adoption makes it clear that they want Windows and that ecosystem to…

> What makes you think Microsoft intended to keep hololens-class devices manufacturing to themselves? Nothing, but they'll be wanting HoloLens-class devices to be running Windows. This thing runs Android. > We've seen hardware plays like this in the past with the Surface design which seems to have too odd of a cadence and release cycle to be purely motivated as a product offering. As you say, the Surface was aimed sq…

Introducing the Android subsystem for windows

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#55

Post by zyx321 »

taneq wrote: post #51
strmpnk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Microsoft intended to keep hololens-class devices manufacturing to themselves? This could be a relationship just like PC OEMs like Lenovo already have, licensing things with a royalty. The prominence of the AR apps in windows (preinstalled in many cases) well before the hardware that Microsoft made themselves was ready for mass adoption makes it clear that they want Windows and that ecosystem to…

> What makes you think Microsoft intended to keep hololens-class devices manufacturing to themselves? Nothing, but they'll be wanting HoloLens-class devices to be running Windows. This thing runs Android. > We've seen hardware plays like this in the past with the Surface design which seems to have too odd of a cadence and release cycle to be purely motivated as a product offering. As you say, the Surface was aimed sq…

The platform that Microsoft wants to push is not just Windows. It's Azure. The HoloLens 2 keynote made a big deal out of opening the ecosystem to Apple and Android clients.

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#56

Post by swish_bob »

garmaine wrote: post #28
andybak wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've missed out something in between "games" and "useful". The arts. There's still a lot of interest (at least from where I'm standing) in VR etc as a creative medium. There's some really remarkable work being created.

Also engineering—meaning physical engineering, not software. Think: CAD, simulations, architecture, manufacturing. You could do a virtual walk though of a factory before breaking ground, or just look at the output of a numerical simulation to get a gist of it instead of spending time writing summary tools. When VR controllers get there you could program an industrial robot arm just by doing the activity yourself in a…

Personally, if I was an architect, I'd have bought into this stuff heavily. The ability to let people walk around the house I've just designed and request tweaks before the foundations are poured would be _immense_.

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#57

Post by nbevans »

yumraj wrote: post #42
taneq wrote: post #40

I wonder how this will play out with IP, given that Lenovo has been manufacturing a Windows Mixed Reality headset using Microsoft's VR/AR tech? They'd have to tread very carefully to avoid stepping on any MS patents etc. with inside-out tracking. Also, once again (as with Valve vs. HTC) we see the pattern playing out: 1) Platform owner develops new tech to be used on their platform, tries to foster an ecosystem 2) Th…

This is how it will play out: 1) MS will sue Lenovo. 2) China will threaten MS with consequences including no access to China market. 3) MS will withdraw the lawsuit and lick its wounds.

I don't think Microsoft is that dumb. They have business in China that they want to protect. They will certainly have China advisors available to their board to prevent such miscalculations. And that is assuming Microsoft considers Lenovo's product as an infringement (they might not); Lenovo may have paid for whatever IP they have used - or they may have found creative ways to avoid it.

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#58

Post by Legogris »

writimov wrote: post #2

I've used a Google Glass, Oculus Rift, Cardboard VR systems and seen a demo of Oculus Rift. Is the Lenovo ThinkReality a real competitor? The market hasn't picked up VR for gaming and AR has flopped so far. How about high end systems for engineering and design. There could be a case where engineering speed and collaboration could increase from using a few of these systems at any company doing hardware design.

I can't speak for ThinkReality, but HoloLens (2) is definitely not intended to be an Oculus competitor but for industry applications. I'm confident that consumer-grade AR/VR for anything but enthusiasts is at least a couple of device generations away.

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#59

Post by netcan »

jackbrookes wrote: post #10
dna_polymerase wrote: post #8

The only place I see such devices are highly polished demos to show the 'capabilities of AR/VR'. I've never seen such headsets used for anything even remotely useful (not considering gaming as extremely useful). I think the AR/VR craze is just here because we have nothing really new at the moment and investors want to pour money into something.

I run psychology experiments (motor control/spatial decision making) in VR and and its been a gamechanger in the last few years. Create your experiments completely in software to allow them to copied, modified, and distributed much more easily.

Interesting. Anywhere I can see more on this?

Re: Lenovo launches HoloLens competitor

#60

Post by yumraj »

nbevans wrote: post #57
yumraj wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how it will play out: 1) MS will sue Lenovo. 2) China will threaten MS with consequences including no access to China market. 3) MS will withdraw the lawsuit and lick its wounds.

I don't think Microsoft is that dumb. They have business in China that they want to protect. They will certainly have China advisors available to their board to prevent such miscalculations. And that is assuming Microsoft considers Lenovo's product as an infringement (they might not); Lenovo may have paid for whatever IP they have used - or they may have found creative ways to avoid it.

It is sad that all the comments are basically implying that MS, or any company by extension, should just accept IP infringement by Chinese rather than take action against it.

How the hell did we get in this mess....

Why don't companies understand that Chinese market is a one off access. The moment some Chinese company copies IP, that access is gone. It's a very myopic strategy to accept such losses as a trade-off for doing business in China.

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