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Crimes in Concrete

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Re: Crimes in Concrete

#31
post #15

Was just at Umass Amherst for my son's graduation. It's an open air museum of brutalism. Breuer's student center building: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_D._Lincoln_Campus_Cente... The nearby parking garage is better, actually. The Fine Arts Center: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_Arts_Center_(Amherst,_Mas...

> It's an open air museum of brutalism. I am not sure how to interpret your comment. Was this meant to be in a negative sense or in a positive sense? Or without any judgement?

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Re: Crimes in Concrete

#32

San Francisco is undergoing exactly such a crime wave. The new apartment buildings are just glass and steel, with no redeeming features whatsoever. Compare these new buildings to the Flood Building or the Hobart Building, and you'll shed a tear or two.

The Hobart building is pretty to look at. But if I'm actually going to spend my time in the building, I would much rather have the floor-to-ceiling windows of a generic modern steel-and-glass tower.

I wonder how much of this design trend is due to the development of better materials (e.g. more insulating glass).

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#33
post #15

Was just at Umass Amherst for my son's graduation. It's an open air museum of brutalism. Breuer's student center building: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_D._Lincoln_Campus_Cente... The nearby parking garage is better, actually. The Fine Arts Center: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_Arts_Center_(Amherst,_Mas...

> It's an open air museum of brutalism. I am not sure how to interpret your comment. Was this meant to be in a negative sense or in a positive sense? Or without any judgement?

Brutalism is an architecture style common in the mid 19th century

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#34
post #2

It's fascinating how neatly being politically conservative or progressive lines up with the corresponding architectural view. I like brutalism, but I disagree with the removal of Scruton from that position, it seems political. What annoys me about articles like the above is that they seem to ignore the possibility that aesthetics involves a lot of subjectivity. The argument seems to boil down to, "of course it's ugly…

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Re: Crimes in Concrete

#35

The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive. The ones that survive are the ones we like and that are able to survive (not plywood and well built). Survival is the real measurement of how much we like it - it is the ultimate arbiter of aesthetics/beauty/cultural significance/engineering excellence, and it trumps all the chatter of self-appointed critics. If it's garbage, we tear it down or stop…

Comparing buildings by their external appearance is never going away, but many people just don’t care. Brutalist is thus never going away simply because at it’s core it was very utilitarian. The fad was mostly an over reaction, but sometimes you just want a large concrete box and anything else is a waste of resources.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#36

The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive. The ones that survive are the ones we like and that are able to survive (not plywood and well built). Survival is the real measurement of how much we like it - it is the ultimate arbiter of aesthetics/beauty/cultural significance/engineering excellence, and it trumps all the chatter of self-appointed critics. If it's garbage, we tear it down or stop…

Sometimes this is true, sometimes this is not. The mess that is Penn Station comes to mind. The buildings and neighborhoods torn down for freeway projects come to mind.

Sometimes the new is all that is required to be better than the old.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#37
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's an open air museum of brutalism. I am not sure how to interpret your comment. Was this meant to be in a negative sense or in a positive sense? Or without any judgement?

Brutalism is an architecture style common in the mid 19th century

yeah, i know. I quite like it myself.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#38
post #19

The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive. The ones that survive are the ones we like and that are able to survive (not plywood and well built). Survival is the real measurement of how much we like it - it is the ultimate arbiter of aesthetics/beauty/cultural significance/engineering excellence, and it trumps all the chatter of self-appointed critics. If it's garbage, we tear it down or stop…

Well, apart from the "listed building" system which freezes them on an entirely political basis.

Yes, my worry is not so much that architects build ugly or dysfunctional buildings (that has always happened), but that today's architects, once they manage to build something, tend to have quite a bit of power to prevent tearing down or altering their oeuvres, no matter how ill conceived.

Re: Crimes in Concrete

#39

The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive. The ones that survive are the ones we like and that are able to survive (not plywood and well built). Survival is the real measurement of how much we like it - it is the ultimate arbiter of aesthetics/beauty/cultural significance/engineering excellence, and it trumps all the chatter of self-appointed critics. If it's garbage, we tear it down or stop…

> The only pre-20thC buildings that remain are the ones that survive.

This has become a cliché talking-point, but it isn't entirely true. Or, at least, it doesn't fully apply here.

The best contrast to "modernism" would be the episode directly preceding it, namely Art Nouveau or Jugendstil.

There are lots of European cities both large and small that were predominantly built in this style, because it coincided with the rapid growth of cities as industrialisation swept (parts of) Europe. While British cities and Paris are somewhat older, everything east of France saw a major growth spurt in this time.

Because construction was rather centralised, a great many houses of rather similar style were built.

My city, Berlin, is a prime example of this. The core city centre is somewhat older, but about 80% of the housing stock were built within 25 years around the turn of the 20th century.

Here's a street view of my house: https://goo.gl/maps/NRhfef2KEdx7yAET8

If you walk around a bit, you will see newer, mostly ugly buildings. But essentially no houses were ever demolished for aesthetic reasons. Every new house owes its existence to World War 2.

Here's a map showing building age on a block-by-block level: https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/so-alt-wohnt-berlin/ (click on "Karte aktivieren" to the right). If you hover over different blocks, you will note that for the vast majority, houses were built around the same time. The same is true for wider areas, generally becoming younger as one leaves the centre (as expected for a growing city.

For the "survival of the pretty" theory, one would expect more within-block heterogeneity, with one house surviving and it's direct (ugly) neighbour having been demolished and rebuilt.

Go to cities that weren't bombed, such as Budapest, and you will find entire quarters unchanged since they were built about 120 years ago.

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