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Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

reuters.com

411–420 of 511 posts

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the whole point though. We're creating bs jobs to replace the bs jobs we automated. What's our goal as a society ? Shouldn't we think about working less, better spreading wealth, figuring out a plan so people don't have to work multiple jobs to barely survive ? Right now almost everywhere in the world we're heading for longer work week and increased retirement age. So much for "automation will deliver us f…

> better spreading wealth I grew up in a country where communism has won - I know for sure that it's an utopia. I really hate communists, socialists and other imbeciles who believe that people/business should give their money to lazy people just to make everybody "equal". No, people are not equal - somebody is smarter, somebody works more, somebody is a great artist, somebody is just a lazy alcoholic. So no, we shoul…

> I grew up in a country where communism has won - I know for sure that it's an utopia.

I don't think communism is the answer either.

> I really hate communists, socialists and other imbeciles who believe that people/business should give their money to lazy people just to make everybody "equal".

That's a very individualistic point of view, I used to hold a similar one a few years ago but traveling made me change my mind. Look at the US for example, people are dying of diabetes, in 2019, because they can't afford insulin. That's in the #1 country in the world according to "the market".

It might be lazy people, it might also be disabled people, people born in the wrong place / at the wrong time, people who didn't get the opportunity to develop, &c. The question isn't even "why are these people failing?", but "how do we handle them humanely?". It's life, shit happens, your parents die prematurely, you get sick, your company declares bankruptcy and you get fire out of nowhere.

The day you'll have kids or, hopefully not, a car accident, a cancer or other high impact disease, you'll be happy that all these "imbeciles" paid a bit of your hundred thousand dollar bills you'll owe to the hospital / schools.

> just to make everybody "equal". No, people are not equal

Sure they're not, nothing is. It's not about making people equal, it's about not letting people go down too far. You can shift the blame on people all you want ("somebody is just a lazy alcoholic"), but in the end we're products of our environment. Individuals shape society, society shapes individuals. There are people having full time jobs who won't be able to live when they retire without public pensions, what do you tell to these people ? "Too bad you were too lazy, go die somewhere else" ?

When I'm talking about spreading wealth I'm not talking about the average worker giving even more of his money, I'm talking about the top 10%, the people who game the system going through every loophole available to avoid paying tax.

> we should think how to train people for new skills/professions, required by the market.

We're already doing that, and in a perfect world yeah, it might work. But I don't see that happening, we'll always have people less capable than others, people who chose or get pushed on different paths.

Also, idk where you live but (moderate) socialism brought us weekends (yeah before workers started to unionize in europe we were workin 10 hours a day 7/7), vacation days, sick days, health insurance, social security, work insurances, maternity/paternity leave, unemployment benefits, <40hrs work week, &c. so it's not all bad. I care much more about what I and my close community requires than what "the market" requires. By the way, isn't "the market" supposed to serve the people and not the other way around ?

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#412
post #369
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for Amazon in what was then a brand new warehouse for a few months in 2015. I worked 10 hour shifts, from 20:00 to 07:00 (the extra hour was for lunch and breaks). My job was picking orders. It seemed easy at first (and it was, but mentally, not so much). All I had to do was stand in one place while robots brought me pod after endless pod of products. There was nothing to it, and that was the problem. The po…

"And for $13.75 an hour, it definitely isn't worth it." A billion of people around the world would be happy to work with that hourly rate.

Despite the fact that I might not be a rich man in this country, I am a very rich man in this world. I feel quite lucky and grateful to have been born in the USA. But to be fair, that was not a very good wage for where I live.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#413
post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's quite likely, but unknowable, that folks would accept the income:cost of living ratio of the US if it came with the associated sociological benefits. I think you're underestimating how disproportionately impoverished many people around the world are.

Well people here keep ranting about 1 percenters without ever realizing that >$100K earners are among one percenters in the world.

You're right that a few people do, although I think most people realise how deeply fortunate we all are to have won to at least some extent a genetic and [entirely separate] geographic lottery.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current social security spending gives us $9k per household. Cutting military spending in half (utopian, but so is UBI): $3200 per hh. Raising income tax to a simple flat 50% rate gives us extra 0.7 trillion or $7k per hh. Single payer would give us about $1k per hh plus free healthcare for everyone. No more insurance payments. That is already about $21k per year per household.

> Raising income tax to a simple flat 50% rate gives us extra 0.7 trillion or $7k per hh. If income tax was raised to 50% flat and you keep all the social security and single payer spending, your paycheck would net maybe 25% of your salary. Who works full time for 25 cents on the dollar when they can just retire? So then people won't work full time, your tax revenue, your single payer money, your pension money, it al…

> one has to be very careful about the actual amount.

And limits/process on how/if it can be raised. Otherwise, it's likely to devolve into people literally voting themselves an ever-increasing share of money from the treasury...

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> better spreading wealth I grew up in a country where communism has won - I know for sure that it's an utopia. I really hate communists, socialists and other imbeciles who believe that people/business should give their money to lazy people just to make everybody "equal". No, people are not equal - somebody is smarter, somebody works more, somebody is a great artist, somebody is just a lazy alcoholic. So no, we shoul…

> I grew up in a country where communism has won - I know for sure that it's an utopia. I don't think communism is the answer either. > I really hate communists, socialists and other imbeciles who believe that people/business should give their money to lazy people just to make everybody "equal". That's a very individualistic point of view, I used to hold a similar one a few years ago but traveling made me change my m…

[flagged]

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#416

I'm all for this as soon as we change the laws so companies pay payroll taxes on automation commensurate to the number of paid positions taken by the equipment. Automation is what we should be striving for, but only if workers and society see material benefits from it. ("Your labor potential can be reallocated to a position of higher need"/"You now have the opportunity to retrain" isn't a material benefit.)

This would kill the entire economy almost immediately. How many "paid positions" does Microsoft Excel replace every day? A single for loop could replace a thousand jobs doing manual computation. How many farm laborers are replaced by a single piece of modern equipment? You can't "strive for" automation, while at the same time essentially locking in labor costs by taxing that automation as human labor.

> How many "paid positions" does Microsoft Excel replace every day?

I don't know, could you tell me? I don't think that we actually can point to people working in the position of calculator who are rendered unemployed by Excel version bumps. Arguing that we'd be putting Bob Cratchet and other clerks from the 1800's out of work rings of reductio ad absurdum.

MS Excel seems to lack the one-to-one correlation between a worker on a fulfillment line putting things in boxes and a robot on the same line doing the same work (and doing it more efficiently, since the 'bot custom-fits the packaging to the product).

The farm and mining automation example do ring truer, and in each case we've seen large increases in productivity (as well as consolidation) while seeing people in these communities falling out of work and not being able to get back into the labor market. To pick the only mining county I can think off off the top of my head, the effect of automation continues to be felt in local economies:

https://www.bestplaces.net/economy/county/kentucky/harlan

https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/coal/article44121909.htm...

> You can't "strive for" automation, while at the same time essentially locking in labor costs by taxing that automation as human labor.

Why not?

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#417
post #369
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for Amazon in what was then a brand new warehouse for a few months in 2015. I worked 10 hour shifts, from 20:00 to 07:00 (the extra hour was for lunch and breaks). My job was picking orders. It seemed easy at first (and it was, but mentally, not so much). All I had to do was stand in one place while robots brought me pod after endless pod of products. There was nothing to it, and that was the problem. The po…

"And for $13.75 an hour, it definitely isn't worth it." A billion of people around the world would be happy to work with that hourly rate.

All in countries with a lower cost of living.

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know overall jobs will decrease? It's also totally possible that each warehouse will be made twice as efficient per employee... but also deliver twice the merchandise... maintaining the same total number of jobs. Kind of the same way that automation of the past 100 years across the economy has still resulted in record-setting employment right now.

Curiously, what does the homelessness & (true, ie not unemployment) jobless rate look like in that graph? Of course though, they're tough metrics. More importantly though, we're on the cusp of some pretty hairy water. Imagine we drop all of the truck drivers, taxi drivers, Uber and Lift drivers tomorrow. How many millions of people will that be - where can they go? I'm not against automation in the slightest, but to…

Looking at the state of my apartment I could really use a fulltime maid/cook. I can't afford that right now, but if the difference between the average income for the low income group and the high income group goes up enough, that would be a possibility (assuming computer programmers continue to get paid a high income, whereas maids do not).

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#419
post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for Amazon in what was then a brand new warehouse for a few months in 2015. I worked 10 hour shifts, from 20:00 to 07:00 (the extra hour was for lunch and breaks). My job was picking orders. It seemed easy at first (and it was, but mentally, not so much). All I had to do was stand in one place while robots brought me pod after endless pod of products. There was nothing to it, and that was the problem. The po…

> I was literally just a robot arm with a human brain attached to it, and for what? This is how I felt as an undergrad working in a research lab. Endless, annoying pipetting. Labeling tubes. Bitchwork that the postdoc didn't want to do. I kept thinking... there's no way they can't come up with a robot to do this. My guess is the technology to do it is there but the motivation isn't - most undergrads (me included) wor…

There is a pipetting robot now: https://opentrons.com/

Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs

#420
post #312
post #301

Articles about Amazon are quick to mention the workplace conditions or robots automating something. Rarely do they mention that machines equal lower prices for the consumers 9 times out of 10. You can think what you want about Amazon but I’m not complaining that I have 100’s of options for my phone case, all for 1/5 the price of the previous days buying them at Verizon or Apple. Edit: would be awesome to hear about A…

>machines bring lower prices Do you have any source about this? If the costumer is already willing to pay a price there would be no point in lowering the price just because you automated the process. Or better said, theres no point in investing in machines if your profit margin is not going to get wider.

Customers are always willing to pay the lowest possible price if they are not paying that already.
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