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Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

reuters.com

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Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#221

Post by [deleted] »

pluma wrote: post #178
mieseratte wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having sex with someone who is sleeping is definitely (alleged) rape, unless she agreed to it beforehand or something. I mean, that's a very grey and complicated area. I had an ex who would do that type of thing, and it was never discussed but was absolutely welcome. I suppose after the first time you could argue some type of implicit consent. Or maybe I'm just a Stockholm Syndrome candidate. I have no idea the dyn…

Let's put it this way: If I tell you to take a fiver from my wallet and you do it, that's consensual. If you then later take another fiver out of my wallet without my permission, it's not consensual. If I catch you doing it, I might still be okay with it but that doesn't mean it wasn't non-consensual when you did it.

[deleted]

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#222

Post by JoeSmithson »

akvadrako wrote: post #213
mikeash wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see no indication that this was “weaponized.” Assange was wanted for questioning in Sweden. He was in the UK and would have been arrested and extradited. This is all completely normal . It went off the rails when he sought refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, which was his own choice. Supposedly he did this because he was afraid that he’d be hauled off to Guantanamo Bay or whatever, but that doesn’t seem to be the cas…

> I see no indication that this was “weaponized.” Then you haven't been following this story very closely. A few brief examples: (1) The case was closed before he left Sweden. (2) They could have questioned him remotely, which they often do, but declined to. (3) The women didn't even want to charge him. (4) There is a USA extradition order in place. How can you doubt the USA wants to extradite him? (5) This isn't "ra…

> (5) This isn't "rape" by any standard definition.

The "Miss W" allegation in particular is rape by almost every country's legal definition.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#223

Post by blub »

PJDK wrote: post #208
blub wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

16000 warrants for people having sex with their sleeping sex partner without a condom? Did those 16000 also enjoy 16 million pounds of police surveillance and an international man hunt? This is great news. If we continue to invest so much effort in solving the slightest hint of sexual inappropriateness we'll completely eliminate sexual crimes. Perhaps even sex itself.

16000 people going through these fairly mundane bit of EU legal procedures. Some of them will have done worse things, but many of them will have done much less worse things (like the aforementioned chicken theft. What international manhunt? Man runs into embassy escaping bail - police wait outside. What other outcome could there have been?

So the actual number of extradition requests for alleged sleep-sex-offenders could actually be 0, you didn't even check in detail? This is quite anti-climatic.

Alternative outcome: the brits spare 16m £, which they can then invest in fighting real crime.

They arrest the alleged offender when flying or at any routine control, since he's not a danger to anyone. Anyone except those unmasked by the leaks.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#224

Post by code_duck »

kawsper wrote: post #150
thecatspaw wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one cannot consent if one is not conscious would that negate previously established consent? As in "hey if you wanna wake me up tomorrow with sex that would be nice"

I started to think of sexsomnia when I read that quote, it's when people engage in sex while sleeping, I looked it up on Wikipedia and they list a few cases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_sex#Legal_cases

Something like this has happened to me in the past. If I am having sex with my partner and we fall asleep, sometimes I will wake up 1 to 3 hours later and not realize that we fell asleep, and try to resume relations. This is our in the context of a relationship, and in each it’s been understood that this would not disturb my partner. So, it hasn’t been a problem. Now, if I fell asleep alongside someone with whom I was not just having intercourse (or especially never had done so) and did that, I could see how it would be a problem.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#225

Post by Godel_unicode »

pluma wrote: post #178
mieseratte wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having sex with someone who is sleeping is definitely (alleged) rape, unless she agreed to it beforehand or something. I mean, that's a very grey and complicated area. I had an ex who would do that type of thing, and it was never discussed but was absolutely welcome. I suppose after the first time you could argue some type of implicit consent. Or maybe I'm just a Stockholm Syndrome candidate. I have no idea the dyn…

Let's put it this way: If I tell you to take a fiver from my wallet and you do it, that's consensual. If you then later take another fiver out of my wallet without my permission, it's not consensual. If I catch you doing it, I might still be okay with it but that doesn't mean it wasn't non-consensual when you did it.

What if, instead of your wallet, it's a box by the door labeled "cab fare" and it's been previously discussed that this box is there for people in the house, me included, to use when catching a cab to the train?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#226

Post by swish_bob »

JoeSmithson wrote: post #218
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

United Kingdom does not extradite people subject to death penalty.

This is because of the ECHR, which Sweden is also subject to.

Yes and no. The Extradition Act explicitly prevents extradition of individuals who might face the death penalty. The ECHR _also_ protects people facing the death penalty.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#227

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

viivaux wrote: post #100
IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #23

Because there are already various conspiracies being discussed in this thread, I'd like to invite you to entertain, just momentarily, the possibility that this is simply a functioning system of justice seeking to prosecute what they consider credible evidence of a crime. I know the tech community likes Assange, or at least liked Wikileaks as it was originally conceived. But here are some thoughts that you could maybe…

For anyone interested, here are the actual facts surrounding this case. https://justice4assange.com/note-to-editors-sweden.html The way media has "covered" this, it is not all that surprising to see ignorant comments and cynical speculation. Such deliberate and thorough ignorance as the above is a little more rare.

Seems like a credible and unbiased source, thanks for the link.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#228

Post by thatoneuser »

Tomte wrote: post #196
thatoneuser wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't it rape/sexual batter for a woman to have sex without bc then? Or at least to have sex without bc if she made the guy think she had it? How did men's reproductive rights get passed over while women's are comprehensive?

Because birth control is not the issue. At all. Sterile men are not allowed to initiate unconsented sex, just because there can be no pregnancy.

"Not an issue" - Unwanted pregnancies adversely affect men for their entire lives. Stds for the most part can be treated. As I said, men don't have reproductive rights. It's because of mentalities like yours.

Not saying it's justified to commit rape but waking up the next morning and having sex again seems relatively routine. If not then I as a man have several women who belong in jail for morning after sex. But I bet you wouldn't see it that way huh?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#229

Post by jfk13 »

gsnedders wrote: post #139
thecatspaw wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one cannot consent if one is not conscious would that negate previously established consent? As in "hey if you wanna wake me up tomorrow with sex that would be nice"

At least under English law, you cannot provide consent in advance; you must have the ability to provide and withdraw consent at the time of the act.

That doesn't really seem to eliminate such grey areas. Exactly how many seconds/minutes/hours are allowed to elapse between the question/answer "May I have sex with you?" ... "Yes", and the act taking place? When does consent expire?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#230

Post by PJDK »

blub wrote: post #223
PJDK wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

16000 people going through these fairly mundane bit of EU legal procedures. Some of them will have done worse things, but many of them will have done much less worse things (like the aforementioned chicken theft. What international manhunt? Man runs into embassy escaping bail - police wait outside. What other outcome could there have been?

So the actual number of extradition requests for alleged sleep-sex-offenders could actually be 0, you didn't even check in detail? This is quite anti-climatic. Alternative outcome: the brits spare 16m £, which they can then invest in fighting real crime. They arrest the alleged offender when flying or at any routine control, since he's not a danger to anyone. Anyone except those unmasked by the leaks.

I'm afraid that data isn't readily available - although I'm sure it's public somewhere

But...this is a serious crime we're talking about here, I'm not sure why you think otherwise?

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