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Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

reuters.com

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Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#211

Post by repolfx »

ChrisSD wrote: post #78
computerfriend wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has always been his attitude; Sweden refused to interview him in the embassy.

I wouldn't say "always". For example, he left Sweden the day before he was due to be interviewed with a view to arrest. It should also be noted that Assange was finally interviewed in 2016 by Ingrid Isgren.

That's not how I remember it at all. Assange left Sweden because the allegations had been dismissed by prosecutors. He didn't run from Swedish justice, quite the opposite, he hung around longer than necessary until he was told there was no further business to be done.

It was only once he was in the UK that Sweden decided, for no obvious reason at all, that the allegations maybe weren't bogus after all.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#212

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

5040 wrote: post #166
gsnedders wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least under English law, you cannot provide consent in advance; you must have the ability to provide and withdraw consent at the time of the act.

This recent development in English law strikes me as inhuman. It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault. Passion and spontaneity become criminalized.

Is there an incident of a kiss on a sleeping lover being prosecuted?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#213

Post by akvadrako »

mikeash wrote: post #199
duchenne wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel sad, because this is not the right debate to have, and I initiated it. First, I repeat: What he allegedly did is a serious and horrible crime. Also, people need to see the elephant in the room. These two victims' case is weaponized by some governments to scare whistle-blowers. Assange directly or indirectly exposed many horrible crimes, including war rapes, group rapes, mass murders. People need to remember th…

I see no indication that this was “weaponized.” Assange was wanted for questioning in Sweden. He was in the UK and would have been arrested and extradited. This is all completely normal . It went off the rails when he sought refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, which was his own choice. Supposedly he did this because he was afraid that he’d be hauled off to Guantanamo Bay or whatever, but that doesn’t seem to be the cas…

> I see no indication that this was “weaponized.”

Then you haven't been following this story very closely. A few brief examples: (1) The case was closed before he left Sweden. (2) They could have questioned him remotely, which they often do, but declined to. (3) The women didn't even want to charge him. (4) There is a USA extradition order in place. How can you doubt the USA wants to extradite him? (5) This isn't "rape" by any standard definition.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#214

Post by kermitismyhero »

lostjohnny wrote: post #17
krageon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> clearly bogus It is not clearly bogus. It was a concern. The concern might be wrong, as they often are. That doesn't make it somehow not legitimate.

Even if it was true, what's wrong with that? He would be sent to USA to respond of his alleged crimes in front of a public court of justice.

>He would be sent to USA to respond of his alleged crimes in front of a public court of justice.

Haha, no. He'd be sent to a secret FISA Star Chamber. There's no way he'd be tried in public.

And if the Swedish authorities wanted Assange to answer for alleged crimes in Sweden, all they had to do was publicly declare that they wouldn't extradite Assange to the US. That was the sole requirement he had made of the Swedish authorities in exchange for his willingness to return to Sweden. The fact that the Swedish authorities refused even that is deeply suspicious.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#215

Post by [deleted] »

pluma wrote: post #178
mieseratte wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having sex with someone who is sleeping is definitely (alleged) rape, unless she agreed to it beforehand or something. I mean, that's a very grey and complicated area. I had an ex who would do that type of thing, and it was never discussed but was absolutely welcome. I suppose after the first time you could argue some type of implicit consent. Or maybe I'm just a Stockholm Syndrome candidate. I have no idea the dyn…

Let's put it this way: If I tell you to take a fiver from my wallet and you do it, that's consensual. If you then later take another fiver out of my wallet without my permission, it's not consensual. If I catch you doing it, I might still be okay with it but that doesn't mean it wasn't non-consensual when you did it.

[deleted]

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#216

Post by bdamm »

mikeash wrote: post #199
duchenne wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel sad, because this is not the right debate to have, and I initiated it. First, I repeat: What he allegedly did is a serious and horrible crime. Also, people need to see the elephant in the room. These two victims' case is weaponized by some governments to scare whistle-blowers. Assange directly or indirectly exposed many horrible crimes, including war rapes, group rapes, mass murders. People need to remember th…

I see no indication that this was “weaponized.” Assange was wanted for questioning in Sweden. He was in the UK and would have been arrested and extradited. This is all completely normal . It went off the rails when he sought refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, which was his own choice. Supposedly he did this because he was afraid that he’d be hauled off to Guantanamo Bay or whatever, but that doesn’t seem to be the cas…

The timing of the Swedish charge is very noteworthy. The charge and extradition request was made shortly after the release of the US diplomatic cables.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#217

Post by snvzz »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #95
rich-tea wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The continual broadening of the definition of rape will only dampen its impact and harm the few genuine victims of rape.

"the few genuine victims of rape" kinda gives away your attitude on the subject. At least you know that this sort of misogyny isn't well received in polite company and decided to create a new account for it.

Why would it be misogyny rather than misandry or both?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#218

Post by JoeSmithson »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #201
empath75 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were about what America wants, why wouldn’t they just let America extradite him? They already have an extradition request in.

United Kingdom does not extradite people subject to death penalty.

This is because of the ECHR, which Sweden is also subject to.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#219

Post by Godel_unicode »

HatchedLake721 wrote: post #201
empath75 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were about what America wants, why wouldn’t they just let America extradite him? They already have an extradition request in.

United Kingdom does not extradite people subject to death penalty.

That hardly applies in this case. The much more relevant restriction is that the Bush-era US-UK extradition treaty doesn't allow for extradition for "political crimes", usually interpreted as espionage, treason, etc. This is in turn why he's being charged instead with conspiracy to hack a computer, which is likely not a political crime as the term of art is used in extradition cases.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#220

Post by User23 »

5040 wrote: post #166
gsnedders wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least under English law, you cannot provide consent in advance; you must have the ability to provide and withdraw consent at the time of the act.

This recent development in English law strikes me as inhuman. It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault. Passion and spontaneity become criminalized.

The observable goal of these policies is maximal license for women's sexuality and maximal suppression of men's sexuality. This isn't a normative statement, it's a descriptive one, so please don't take offense and if my description is incorrect then provide examples of, say, a woman being convicted of rape because she lied about being on birth control.
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