Earlier quoted context omitted.
UBI. Then we can be gleeful about more automation.
A UBI in the salary range of an Amazon warehouse worker would be on the order of 1/3rd GDP.
30K / year * 100 million people = 3 trillion. 1/6th GDP. Lots of money.
Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
111–120 of 511 posts
Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#112Something tells me people will find a way to complain about this. And that those people will be the same people that think Amazon's warehouse policies are oppressive.
Of course, and with good reasons. Before you wrote your comment, did you stop to think why people work inside Amazon's warehouses if the working conditions are so oppressive? It's because the alternatives are still worse. And now they'll lose those jobs and have to face those alternatives. Of course those of us who perceive this as an injustice will complain. The complaint is not directed at Amazon only, it's at the…
Can I just clarify: you're saying that Amazon, despite offering jobs which are (apparently) less bad than other alternatives, are participating in systemic oppression of the working class?
In your view, what should Amazon do to not systemically oppress the working class?
Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#113This sounds like good news. I've read lots of negative stories about the working conditions in Amazon warehouses. It would be great if all the jobs could be automated.
Honestly the best proposal I've seen for slowing down such automation is to add a tax on these machines. That'll make the cost-benefit equation less obvious. These machines won't pay for themselves in a year and then be practically free. They'll continue to cost a lot. This kind of tax would help slow the progress of such automation to a speed where society can better adjust.
And I say this as someone who absolutely loves all this kind of automation.
Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think HN's tune would be quite different if someone came up with a technology that eliminated half of all programming jobs. Not quite so many people would be saying, "This is great! I for one look forward to technological advancement." I do think the future should involve more automation, I just think we should be -- I dunno, a little less gleeful about it and think about the people it's impacting.
UBI. Then we can be gleeful about more automation.
People need to feel useful to others. Right now, in the US, we fulfill that need through work. Work is an integral part of our culture. If you make a whole swath of the population feel redundant, especially practical, no-nonsense people who are used to having work define who they are, they are not going to adjust well.
They are quite different than college-educated hippies who would rather get more education and go surfing for a few years while they write bad poetry.
I mean imagine living in a rural, middle-of-nowhere US town where everyone pretty much lives on $800/mo from the government. What would you do out there? Would you care about high school if it's totally okay to not do anything? Maybe you'd go off to college, but then come back when it gets hard because it's totally okay if you never amount to anything. I would probably just spend my life on the internet and playing games while feeling guilty. Others would escape through drugs.
It is possible to change our culture and attitudes to work, but that's a really big change.
Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
A UBI in the salary range of an Amazon warehouse worker would be on the order of 1/3rd GDP.
That's much higher than I expect, citation? I was told there would be math.
Did you make any attempt to solve it yourself?
Googling: Amazon warehouse worker $14/hour. 2080 hours per year = $29K. US Adult population 252 million. Multiply: 7.4 Trillion. US GDP (2017) 19.4 Trillion. Taking only US citizen adults, the figure is still >90% of the above.
Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Places like Japan keep unemployment low by having many low skill jobs, like mall greeters and whatnot. This may be better than unemployment, but is possibly not the best use of human versatilty.. An interesting aspect is that those jobs are low technical skill, but can require good to very good social skills to be done well. Without joking, greeting an elderly entering a bank and guiding them to the section they ne…
That’s not what people mean when referring to low skill jobs. What you’re saying would be similar to saying a warehouse worker might be low in technical skill but high in strength skill, which just misses the point that people refer to low skill jobs as jobs that require little education or specialization.
I am not sure everyone shares that definition. Would sales or manager be a low skill job for instance ?
For a number of these positions you need little to no specific education or specialisation.
Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#117Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#118Video of the CarltonWrap mentioned in the article: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1yw05mWnXw It's actually pretty neat - creates boxes to size on demand. Doesn't seem like this would be possible with humans at a store, and could really cut down on box inventory.
Absurd how most of the items on the belt are already in a cardboard box. Seems so wasteful.
Better to support returns?
And maybe better protection for items not explicitly boxed to support mail-order/delivery? (Although as noted elsewhere in this discussion, maybe Amazon could use its power to require boxing better suited to their needs from the manufacturers...)
Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#119Is it odd that the headline and article imply Amazon created the tech, then halfway through it's clear they are implementing a solution many other competitors have?
Seems like marketing copy regarding Amazon, possibly being behind in implementation of a common solution.
Re: Amazon rolls out machines that pack orders and replace jobs
#120This sounds like good news. I've read lots of negative stories about the working conditions in Amazon warehouses. It would be great if all the jobs could be automated.
Honestly the best proposal I've seen for slowing down such automation is to add a tax on these machines. That'll make the cost-benefit equation less obvious. These machines won't pay for themselves in a year and then be practically free. They'll continue to cost a lot. This kind of tax would help slow the progress of such automation to a speed where society can better adjust. And I say this as someone who absolutely…
I was going to (very slightly) disagree, but the idea that society is slower than technology is an angle that needs to be stated out loud a lot more. We can't out pace machines and its a fair reason to tax them for the time being.
That said, I don't necessarily believe "society is slow to catch up" should be a long term problem. It should be something the government mandates for x years -- so that it has a timeline to get its act together and build society towards the future.