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How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

nathanmarz.com

41–50 of 84 posts

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#41
post #31

For all the people claiming that this is likely to end in a lawsuit where is your evidence? Do you have any actual cases where a company was sued because they gave legitimate feedback? How much money did the company lose because of this suit? How many lawsuits are there per rejected candidate? Do you know the text of the laws that specifically address this?

I get the feeling that the "avoiding a lawsuit" justification for not supplying feedback is a result of cargo cult thinking, not actual evidence.

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#42
post #3

The reason many places don't do this is not so much to avoid feeling like an a-hole but to avoid accidental liability. There are so many things you can't say or ask in an interview, that a lot of companies that are big enough to have an HR person or department will require a very generic rejection letter just to be sure they don't provide grounds for a lawsuit.

The bargain being made here though is reduced liability in exchange for missing out on a chance to make a really positive impression with someone who has had a pretty serious and beyond-the-surface experience with your company. I think this is the primary point the blog author is trying to make.

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#43
post #33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoiding a lawsuit is as easy as not citing illegal reasons for not hiring someone. E.g. “You’re a woman,” “you’re Indian,” “we’re uncertain how your disability will effect our workplace,” or “you’re too old.” (Or their codeword equivalents.) I think the author is just being civil and I commend him for it.

No. All you have to do is interview someone in a protected hiring class, and then say something in the rejection that contradicts or is in any way inconsistent with anything you have said or the candidate can claim you have said. Litigious candidates don't have to play to win the lawsuit, either; they can play to settle.

Litigious candidates can sue regardless of what you do. I refuse to let shysters, either opposing or my own counsel, determine how I interact with people.

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken, but with the given numbers it wouldn't actually be that bad. If you interview thousands of candidates, then paying an amortized $100 per candidate is not too much. If that is what it costs to give people a good impression of your company, it might well be worth it.

Oh god, that's the worst deal of all time. A hundred bucks for the possibility that a rejected job candidate will say something nice about the rejection process? Put that hundred bucks into making your product better so people will talk about that, or improving working conditions for your existing staff so they'll talk about that, or hiring a PR company, or any of a million things before a lawsuit.

That's reasonably targeted advertising though. If you're hiring a C developer in SF -- there's a good chance that the person you reject has a whole bunch of friends/colleagues/acquantences that are C Devs in SF. And if you've got 1000 ex-applicants telling their colleagues - "don't interview with them" you're shooting yourself in the foot.

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#45
post #27
post #3

The reason many places don't do this is not so much to avoid feeling like an a-hole but to avoid accidental liability. There are so many things you can't say or ask in an interview, that a lot of companies that are big enough to have an HR person or department will require a very generic rejection letter just to be sure they don't provide grounds for a lawsuit.

Avoiding a lawsuit is as easy as not citing illegal reasons for not hiring someone. E.g. “You’re a woman,” “you’re Indian,” “we’re uncertain how your disability will effect our workplace,” or “you’re too old.” (Or their codeword equivalents.) I think the author is just being civil and I commend him for it.

Point well made. Here is how I would weave in the legal concerns.

Back in the days of unrestrained freedom of association, employers could afford to be direct about their reasons for hiring decisions. A rejection (or any other employment-related decision) could be based on race, sex, age, ethnicity, disability, or even just disliking someone for no good reason. This changed with the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964, which made it illegal to make employment decisions based on any one of several prohibited bases, including race and sex. The effect of that Act and its progeny throughout the United States was to curtail freedom of association by declaring that public policy made it repugnant to allow individuals to engage in invidious discrimination against discrete and insular minorities who needed special protection to prevent their being abused. While this curtailed a form of unrestricted freedom that had theretofore prevailed in society, only a very few opposed it or saw it as anything other than a great social advancement.

Once the law began to govern such relations, however, formality inevitably took hold and never let go. Without formality, (a) people could say the wrong things, (b) people could say innocent things that could be twisted into seemingly wrong things, (c) people (following casual exchanges) could make things up about what was said, even if employer representatives had in fact acquitted themselves properly, (d) people could compile statistics and find discrimination in any form of pattern or practice used by an employer even in the absence of overt discriminatory intent by the employer's agents, making it perilous to document explicit reasons too explicitly as a matter of routine practice (e) and people could do wrong things in spite of company policies to the contrary and against the wishes of company management just because, people being people, they can do unpredictable things.

In addition to discrimination, the law expanded to further curtail the grounds upon which an employer could choose not to associate with any prospective employee. If an employer adopted policies that were deemed "against public policy" for any reason, or if an employer permitted its employees to sexually harass others, or to retaliate against a person who had complained of company wrongdoing, liability lay in wait for the unsuspecting employer.

Now take all this and throw it into a mix that depends on a standard of proof that something was "more likely than not" to have occurred, and leave it to a jury to weigh conflicting testimony and other evidence - a jury that may well have it out for big company defendants - and you are left with an existential mess for any employers who don't immediately and completely take serious control over employment procedures in their company. Throw in liability exposure arising out of class action as a vehicle for redress (also new to the mix since the 1960s), and you liability risks become paramount over all else. And so everything gets assigned over to HR, leaving it entirely impersonal and sanitized: all in writing, all vague or non-committal, all positively de-humanizing.

But what is a modern employer to do? Or at least a big company employer that cannot rely on the discretion of many hundreds or even thousands of individuals to know all the rules, to apply them consistently and correctly, and to avoid being set up legally by some who would attempt to ensnare them?

Society has gained greatly from its laws against invidious discrimination but such laws have come at a cost, and the cost is precisely that identified by the author of this piece. People no longer can just be themselves in relating to one another in many parts of the workplace but need instead to be hyper-cautious and impersonal. Whatever good may have come from the positive side of these laws (and this has been considerable), this is a real price to pay on the downside.

Fortunately, in most small company situations, people can afford to exercise much more discretion than they can in large corporations. I think this is where the author is coming from and I too commend him for it. Directness and transparency are outstanding qualities. If the situation is small and controlled, and the people involved have the wits and discretion to avoid obvious legal wrongs and traps, there is much to be gained in building the sort of goodwill that you do by treating people decently even as you might be rejecting them as part of the interview process.

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken, but with the given numbers it wouldn't actually be that bad. If you interview thousands of candidates, then paying an amortized $100 per candidate is not too much. If that is what it costs to give people a good impression of your company, it might well be worth it.

Oh god, that's the worst deal of all time. A hundred bucks for the possibility that a rejected job candidate will say something nice about the rejection process? Put that hundred bucks into making your product better so people will talk about that, or improving working conditions for your existing staff so they'll talk about that, or hiring a PR company, or any of a million things before a lawsuit.

It generally costs a lot more than $100 to interview someone (especially for the good candidates who go far).

If this process makes it more likely that good candidates got in touch with you, you might actually save money.

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#47
I'd love to get rejected by somebody in this way. :)

Really, you're above average if you bother to contact the person at all once you've decided not to hire.

A lot of people are pointing out liability issues with this approach, and sadly, they're probably right. But I bet there are constructive things you could tell rejected applicants that would be still be safe from lawsuit.

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#48
post #43
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. All you have to do is interview someone in a protected hiring class, and then say something in the rejection that contradicts or is in any way inconsistent with anything you have said or the candidate can claim you have said. Litigious candidates don't have to play to win the lawsuit, either; they can play to settle.

Litigious candidates can sue regardless of what you do. I refuse to let shysters, either opposing or my own counsel, determine how I interact with people.

[deleted]

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#49
post #19
post #3

The reason many places don't do this is not so much to avoid feeling like an a-hole but to avoid accidental liability. There are so many things you can't say or ask in an interview, that a lot of companies that are big enough to have an HR person or department will require a very generic rejection letter just to be sure they don't provide grounds for a lawsuit.

Is there a way I can just waive my ability to sue? I would love to know my weaknesses in the eyes of others.

> Is there a way I can just waive my ability to sue? I would love to know my weaknesses in the eyes of others.

If you could (and it was binding), HR departments would try to require such waivers.

Re: How to reject a job candidate without being an asshole

#50
For an all day interview, sure some feedback would be nice.

For a phone interview, I'd probably think you're a bigger asshole if you went into details about how I failed the interview, what's wrong with me, why I'm unqualified, and how I can go about improving myself. Imagine someone going into the details about why we won't be going out on a second date.

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