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Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

nytimes.com

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Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#71

Really the abuse of "terrrorism" so blatantly even by the standards of a government should qualify for some pretty damn harsh defamation law to the officials trying to hide behind the state. Those sorts of abuses of power are the kind of thing where we actually do need to be "tough on crime" for if we wish to be remotely free.

I think people are latching on to one person’s very poor choice of rhetorical flair. The case has nothing to do with terrorism and no one involved has actually been accused of terrorism, outside of this hyperbolic rhetoric.

But I do think it is bad practice for the state to turn up the rhetoric in its legal disputes when it turns a legitimate adversarial dispute about the legality of actions into an improper attack on a citizen’s character. But on the other hand, there are plenty of circumstances where we feel it is totally proper (e.g. criminal prosecutions, but probably also lawsuits for fraud, gross negligence, and intentional physical injury). It is hard to balance the state’s dual roles as neutral arbiter/enforcer of the law and adversarial participant in it. The executive/legislative/judicial split helps, but does not solve it.

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#72
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA has very little in terms of law on personal liabilities of officials and their scope. The dismal legal history for USA CFR 25 11.448 - abuse of office is a proof of that. USA is one of few countries where there is close to nothing amounting to codified criminal abuse of office laws, the few criminal abuse of office laws are state level in USA. The wider official crimes class of offences, is also poorly represente…

> USA is one of few countries where there is close to nothing amounting to codified criminal abuse of office laws There is a lot of law, at the federal and state levels, concerning abuse of power [1]. This takes the form of both statutes, which tend to use the term of art "malfeasance in office," e.g. [2], and court precedent (both of which are the law). > there was at least a minimal acknowledgement [in the USSR] th…

> There is a lot of law, at the federal and state levels,

And that law is of very abstract, and ephemeral kind — the very criteria of fault in how USA approaches official crimes.

And as I stated above, most of that law is state level patchwork and case law rather than federal level statutory rules.

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#73
The state is saying Malamud called his own actions "terrorism". I think it's irresponsible how the lawyers worded this in their suit. I also think it's irresponsible for the NYT to print this without this context.

From the suit[0]:

Carl Malamud, has indicated that this type of strategy has been a successful form of “terrorism” that he has employed in the past to force government entities to publish documents on Malamud’s terms.

Consistent with its strategy of terrorism, Defendant freely admits to the copying and distribution of massive numbers of Plaintiff’s Copyrighted Annotations on at least its https://yeswescan.org website. See Exhibit 3.

I wonder what Exhibit 3 is and if it actually shows Malamud referring to his actions directly as terrorism. I wouldn't know how to look that up. Does anyone?

EDIT: It's from the prologue section here: https://museum.media.org/eti/

It's a joke that the lawyers used this as justification for sneaking the word "terrorism" unqualified in their suit.

0 - https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/ga/pro_v_georgia/gov.us...

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#74

Really the abuse of "terrrorism" so blatantly even by the standards of a government should qualify for some pretty damn harsh defamation law to the officials trying to hide behind the state. Those sorts of abuses of power are the kind of thing where we actually do need to be "tough on crime" for if we wish to be remotely free.

To be clear, the "abuse" of "terrorism" in this case amounts to rhetoric. They called the guy's tactics (posting the text of laws online) a "strategy of terrorism".

The actual case seems to be a copyright dispute over whether or not the State of Georgia can copyright its own laws.

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignorance of the law is, famously, not a legal defence.

And fair notice of the law is, famously, an exception to the ignorance of the law rule and is a lawful defense.

This doesn’t do the work you might think it does. To properly know the contents of the law, to the high standard you’re demanding, you would have to read every court case any bit related to the prohibition in question. The annotations merely include a non-binding, incomplete summary of that case law.

Fair notice is pretty narrow. I am pretty sure (could be wrong), that there is no requirement to codify even. If a state wanted, it could leave its laws uncodified and require you to go through every page of legislative records to discover what the law is. What it can’t do is pass literally secret laws and then hold them against you. There are states that still have common law crimes inherited from before the revolution. These are crimes that the state legislature has never defined, but are recognized by judicial custom (though it is widely agreed that even the courts in those states could not define new crimes in this way)

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#76
Actually, xe wasn't.

The legal brief from the plaintiff, hyperlinked from the NYT article, dated 2015, actually says:

> Defendant’s founder and president, Carl Malamud, has indicated that this type of strategy has been a successful form of “terrorism” that he has employed in the past to force government entities to publish documents on Malamud’s terms. See Exhibit 2.

* https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/ga/pro_v_georgia/gov.us...

It is purporting to quote M. Malamud xyrself, describing xyr own acts. To see whether that is actually true, one follows it to exhibit 2.

* https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code/ga/pro_v_georgia/gov.us...

* https://archives.cjr.org/campaign_desk/carl_malamud_public_p...

... where we find that it is a 2009 article from Columbia Journalism Review that says:

> It was a threat to commit “standards terrorism,” as Malamud later put it;

... with "later put it" hyperlinked in the original CJR article to https://museum.media.org/eti/ and the court exhibit containing that same URL explicitly. So the question is whether M. Malamud indeed described xyr own actions as "terrorism" there.

Indeed, xe did:

> While Tony certainly sympathized with my goals, I wasn't quite sure how he was going to react to this form of standards terrorism.

* https://museum.media.org/eti/Prologue01.html

So: Back in 1992, M. Malamud describes xyr own actions as "standards terrorism". That's picked up by Clint Hendler of the Columbia Journalism Review some 17 years later and directly ascribed as M. Malamud's own words; and 6 years after that, the plaintiff points out that that is how M. Malamud characterizes xyr own actions. Then the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and others misreport that as the plaintiff accusing M. Malamud of terrorism.

And the falsehood that the state of Georgia claimed that M. Malamud was a terrorist becomes the accepted truth to such a degree that even Wikipedia's article on Carl Malamud has stated it for the past 4 years.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Carl_Malamud&diff...

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#77
post #14

The Republic of Georgia claims that the legal code establishing the rights and obligations of its citizens (including annotations commissioned and approved by the state) should not be freely available to its citizens or anyone else, because it is copyrighted by the state. According to the article, 20 other states around the world are making similar copyright claims. The written laws of a state (along with annotations…

The text of the laws themselves are open-source. It's the annotations that are the issue and this is, at least, an area where there is a reasonable ambiguity. Hopefully one that will be resolved in favour of greatest openness, but the state's position is at least not totally unreasonable. What is unreasonable, and why this is getting attention on HN is because Malamud's actions in publish the annotations has been des…

Unofficial versions of the law are available, somewhat.

The only official version of the law is the annotated one. Thus the only official law is deemed secret without payment by the state. Thus you cannot know the true law in Georgia without paying.

Not to mention the official annotations are considered authoritative. Lawyer and judges reference them, making them part of the law.

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#78
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating "accused of" and "charged with". Note that the title does not say "charged with".

> You're conflating "charged with" and "accused of". Note the title does not say "charged with" We don't have any context beyond a Georgia lawyer saying "strategy of terrorism." Given how broadly that term is used nowadays, sort of like "war on X", this could have been a reference to Public.Resource.Org's legal or PR strategy or many other things. It's a terrible choice of words, particularly for a government lawyer.…

> We don't have any context

Actually, we have both context and original source documents, going back to 1992. Consider discussions on this page, which I suspect will include lots of people arguing the accusation, as a case in point of how very few people read and do their research.

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19899223

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#79
post #39
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It technically isn't. The annotations in question are expert's analyses of the law, approved by the state. The defendant was told he could publish the actual law, and his own analysis. However it gets really murky when “Georgia’s courts have cited to the annotations as authoritative sources on statutory meaning and legislative intent.” I can see the argument against this being freely publishable. If I wrote a textboo…

The public can access the law with annotations at many libraries. Undoubtedly it's very nice to use the online version, but the annotations are accessible without too much effort.

> The public can access the law with annotations at many libraries. Undoubtedly it's very nice to use the online version, but the annotations are accessible without too much effort.

This sentiment discounts whole segments of the population with mobility or visual impairments, for starters. Why shouldn't courts become more open over time to scrutiny, taking advantage of technical advances to increase transparency and by proxy faith in the institution of the courts?

Re: Sued for copyright infringement for putting legal materials online

#80
Just a note: the use of the word "terrorism" appears to be Malamud's own usage, though likely taken severely out of context for shock value (I cannot find Exhibit 2, which is cited as the source of the term). It does not appear as if anyone is legitimately accusing him of terrorist acts.

That said, it is absurd that materials that have the force of law (being consulted and cited by judges themselves in rendering judgements) can be controlled by a commercial entity. I wish Malamud the best.

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