Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 377 posts

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#121

Post by Kiro »

GordonS wrote: post #83

I'm not sure why the charges keep being reported as "rape", when there's no suggestion he did any such thing. The charges relate to a Swedish law about not using a condom. The woman alleges that Assange removed the condom at some point during sex, without her consent to do so, and that she noticed afterwards. Is it wrong? Yes, of course it is. Is it "rape"? No, but the media has repeated it often enough that now the…

You forgot to mention that he also had sex with a sleeping woman without her consent. How is that not rape?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#122

Post by gsnedders »

Vinnl wrote: post #96
gsnedders wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What relationship does his English conviction have to any US extradition request? (Be it the one that's been sent, or any hypothetical one to Sweden.)

Ehm, good question; it's been a while since I read about this. I think, but don't pin me down on this, that his being kept in a single country would give the US enough time to draw up a formal extradition request for that specific country, whereas if a country isn't able to hold him, the request might not come in time. Hopefully somebody else can chime in with a more reliable explanation.

If he were extradited to Sweden from the UK, under an EAW, to then be further extradited from Sweden to the US, the extradition would need to fulfil the requirements to be extradited from both the UK and Sweden.

Being extradited to Sweden would merely make extradition to the US more complex, not less. He would still be able to challenge the extradition in the (presumably) English courts, but he would further be able to challenge it in the Swedish courts.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#123

Post by moorhosj »

Torwald wrote: post #112
finnjohnsen2 wrote: post #29

Maybe he just raped a girl. Case closed. No huge conspiracies. Question is, if he gets freed, what will happen then?

> Maybe he just raped a girl. If you seriously believe that, than you are either very naive or lying to yourself. It is obvious that influential people who feel threatened by Wikileaks fabricated the whole incident. How else could it be? Think seriously about it. If you manage to convince yourself that there is a real chance of rape happened, then tell me how you did it. Maybe you can convince me too.

So, your assumptions are “obvious” and someone else assumptions are just a result of them not thinking seriously? Maybe it is you who should re-think their position?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#124

Post by moorhosj »

sedeki wrote: post #15
acallaghan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's because he's a rape suspect in Sweden - it's not a giant conspiracy or 'a grab', he's just a suspect that ran away from the law. The USA have already requested his extradition in the UK - to say that "Sweden only sought rape charges because then the USA can extradite him from Sweden" is clearly bogus. If he actually confronted these charges in Sweden, and found guilty, he may actually be out of prison by now.…

”And at the centre of all of this, that everyone seems to have forgotten, are these two women that have accused him of rape.” As far as I know, and at least Assange has claimed this publicly in a video at least once, these two women themselves did not make rape charges against Assange. The case was picked up by some prosecutor who initiated the charges.

Is Assange a reliable narrator in this instance?

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#125

Post by gsnedders »

daemin wrote: post #115

One thing I'm wondering, before he fled to the Embassy, he was out on bail, for which supporters of his put up their property for. Given that he skipped bail they would have forfeited that property, now that he's arrested again do they get it back?

A condition of bail is to surrender himself as requested within a certain timeframe. The surety put forward is a guarantee of that condition; the fact that he was later arrested has no bearing on the fact that that condition was broken.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#126

Post by tomp »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #116
tomp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the law actually say so? To what extent does "rape by lying" exist? I imagine "I'm actually not a doctor" or "let me just remove my makeup" don't count... How about not paying a prostitute after sex (assuming prostitution is legal), does it count as rape (she consented to sex on the condition of paying) or just theft ? Are women that say they're on the pill but aren't, or that use the man's sperm to impregnate t…

You are comparing apples to oranges. Misleading in order to obtain consent is not the same as getting consent for activity A then undertaking activity B. In the first instance one can complain that they wouldn't have given consent had they known the truth. In the second instance consent was not given.

I think it depends what you define as "activity". If activity is sex, then you consent to sex, and you're yourself responsible if your partner is wearing a condom or not. Or activity could be sex with a condom or sex with a partner who's on birth control etc.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#127

Post by dragonwriter »

sedeki wrote: post #15
acallaghan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's because he's a rape suspect in Sweden - it's not a giant conspiracy or 'a grab', he's just a suspect that ran away from the law. The USA have already requested his extradition in the UK - to say that "Sweden only sought rape charges because then the USA can extradite him from Sweden" is clearly bogus. If he actually confronted these charges in Sweden, and found guilty, he may actually be out of prison by now.…

”And at the centre of all of this, that everyone seems to have forgotten, are these two women that have accused him of rape.” As far as I know, and at least Assange has claimed this publicly in a video at least once, these two women themselves did not make rape charges against Assange. The case was picked up by some prosecutor who initiated the charges.

In most legal systems, the initiation of criminal charges is the exclusive domain of public prosecutors, so this seems like one of those statements of Assange’s that is both strictly true (in this case, because it is impossible for it to be any other way) and also deliberately misleading, like the one that his internet was cut by “a state actor”.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#128

Post by dullgiulio »

ChrisSD wrote: post #119
daemin wrote: post #115

One thing I'm wondering, before he fled to the Embassy, he was out on bail, for which supporters of his put up their property for. Given that he skipped bail they would have forfeited that property, now that he's arrested again do they get it back?

In a word, no. He broke his bail agreement and was a fugitive for years. The supporters who put money and assets forward where doing it to show their faith that Assange was not a flight risk. This has been proven to be false.

Also (correct me if I am wrong), there is no legal trace that the bail money was not from Assange own funds.

In other words, if he did surrender according to terms, the money would have gone back to Assange who would have returned it to the donors himself.

I am not sure the donors have any legal way to get the money back now. Unless there were agreements Assange signed, all that money was basically gifts.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#129

Post by wtdata »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #36
duchenne wrote: post #26

Assange is accused of unlawful coercion and "lesser-degree rape" (mindre grov våldtäkt). In the first case, the complainant willingly had an intercourse with him. But after sex, she realized that the condom had a hole. She claims that he made it. In the second case, the complainant also willingly had an intercourse with Assange, they slept naked together. The next day in the morning, he penetrated her without a condo…

If someone consents to have sex only on the condition of protection from disease and pregnancy, and you trick them into sex without a condom that is rape. There may be differences of degrees to the stereotypical violent behind-the-bushes rape. Those should and would be considered for purposes of sentencing. But it's still rape.

That would mean that a woman lying about being on the pill in order for a men to agree to have sex with her, would also constitute rape from her part.

Re: Sweden reopens Assange rape investigation, to seek extradition

#130

Post by Torwald »

moorhosj wrote: post #123
Torwald wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe he just raped a girl. If you seriously believe that, than you are either very naive or lying to yourself. It is obvious that influential people who feel threatened by Wikileaks fabricated the whole incident. How else could it be? Think seriously about it. If you manage to convince yourself that there is a real chance of rape happened, then tell me how you did it. Maybe you can convince me too.

So, your assumptions are “obvious” and someone else assumptions are just a result of them not thinking seriously? Maybe it is you who should re-think their position?

> Maybe it is you who should re-think their position?

Maybe. That's what I offered already. So, can you convince me?

Post reply on HN