Live data from Hacker News

Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

bloomberg.com

51–60 of 237 posts

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#51
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's as likely they were cancelled due to negative public sentiment towards nuclear energy. We're going to need some sources.

Google is your friend! Only one nuke plant in the US was shut down over protests (San Onofre) and that took 20 years. The press releases from plant owners who closed or cancelled their plans all cite negative economics as the reason.

> Only one nuke plant in the US was shut down over protests (San Onofre) and that took 20 years.

You are overestimating the effectiveness of protests and underestimating the effect of sentiment.

It isn't normal for a project to get shut down by protests; capital is already deployed, the government is already on side (having given the requisite approvals) and there is a lot of logistical momentum in place. A couple of protestors aren't going to slow down that sort of juggernaut.

On the flip side, sentiment has a huge impact on whether investors feel like funding cost-up-front ventures. It takes a decade to make the initial investment back, so they have to be confident that 2-3 distinct governments are not going to come up with a hare-brained energy policy that would disrupt the project's profits. They'd have to be very bold in the current environment, especially given the risk of the recent government activism in Germany spreading.

It isn't just possible, it is likely for a nuclear project to have some nonsensical change in standards applied to it by, ironically, anti-science environmentalists.

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#53

> The idea is to transmute this nuclear waste into new forms of atoms which don’t have the problem of radioactivity. What you have to do is to change the makeup of the nucleus. Ok, but what exactly is it transmuting the atom to?

Well, other atoms?

Depending where you start from and how do it. Here is an example: http://www.ipodphysics.com/resources/trans90.jpg

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#54
post #9

> The idea is to transmute this nuclear waste into new forms of atoms which don’t have the problem of radioactivity. What you have to do is to change the makeup of the nucleus. Ok, but what exactly is it transmuting the atom to?

Radioactive materials are dangerous because their subatomic makeup is unstable, meaning they emit dangerous particles as the atom degrades from the inside. So it would seem that, in order to fix that, you'd have to re-populate the innards of the atom with enough protons to make it stable again. It's worth noting that transmutation is definitely possible. The alchemists of old would be thrilled to know that we can, in…

I know how radioactivity and transmutation works; my problem is that I don't actually know how this problem is being "solved".

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#55
post #47

Your periodic reminder that - despite the propaganda campaign run by nuclear advocates to make it seem like being anti-nuclear is to be anti-science - nuclear power remains massively expensive and even less safe than people think. Here's the most comprehensive peer-reviewed survey around: We summarize the results of a recent statistical analysis of 216 nuclear energy accidents and incidents (events). The dataset is t…

The problem is that people who are anti-nuclear are often also anti-coal and anti-fossil-fuel and anti-everything-that-actually-sustains-current-human-level-of-development.

For those people, it has to be "clean renewables", with the speculation being that technology will fix all the issues with it. That ignores that maybe technology can also fix the issues with nuclear - and more readily so.

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#56
post #47

Your periodic reminder that - despite the propaganda campaign run by nuclear advocates to make it seem like being anti-nuclear is to be anti-science - nuclear power remains massively expensive and even less safe than people think. Here's the most comprehensive peer-reviewed survey around: We summarize the results of a recent statistical analysis of 216 nuclear energy accidents and incidents (events). The dataset is t…

How many Fukushimas will we (society) accept every 150 years in order to stop climate change? That's really the only question that matters.

Both Fukushima & Chernobyl would have been essentially non-issues if built further away from population centers. I know this is Sim City logic: but my answer to that would be: quite a lot!

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#57
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a counter source[0]: France is highly powered by nuclear and is on the cheaper side of European cost of electricity. Not the cheapest, but cheaper than the average and especially so for being a major country. Part of the reason France does so well is that 17% of its energy comes from recycled nuclear waste. That's not 17% of nuclear power is from waste, that's 17% of TOTAL power is just from waste. [0] https:/…

I think the point of the OP was that pollution and long-term storage are not priced in. Try coming up with a price for safely storing nuclear waste for the next few thousand years.

> Try coming up with a price for safely storing nuclear waste for the next few thousand years.

Quoting the article:

"Environmental group Greenpeace estimates that there’s a global stockpile of about 250,000 tons of toxic spent fuel spread across 14 countries, based on data from the International Atomic Energy Agency. Of that, 22,000 cubic meters—roughly equivalent to a three-meter tall building covering an area the size of a soccer pitch—is hazardous, according to the IAEA."

That's really not a lot. Who says we need to store this for thousands of years? There's no physical limit to what we can do with it, just economic limits. Future technology may well reduce this waste to nothing at an affordable price.

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#58
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, as far as deaths go, you can't get numbers for something you didn't count. No real accounting has ever been made of the number of people who got cancer and/or died from nuclear activities, starting with the activities at the Hanford Site on through atmospheric testing and today's nightmares like Fukushima. The nuclear industry regularly uses this technique of "nothing to see here" to hide the fact that all nucle…

> No real accounting has ever been made of the number of people who got cancer and/or died from nuclear activities, First of all, nuclear weaponry waste from WW2 and the Cold War are wholly unrelated to activities of civilian nuclear power. While the material is similar in nature, you do not need to melt commercial waste down into radioactive vats of acid to extract pure weapons-grade plutonium in order to make low-c…

> Helen Caldicott is the laughing stock of many respectable scientists. Don't make me dig up some of the ridiculous stuff she's said. She's a true clown.

Oh please do, she truly is a quack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qaptvhky8IQ

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#59
Spent nuclear fuel, sometimes called waste, is actually a resource that next generation reactors will be able to tap - both for energy and uncommon element feedstock. Just like shale used to be "garbage" until the tech to make it useful was developed, spent fuel will be seen as waste until we can make it useful. Letting this very manageable amount of waste sit in repositories until we get our shit together is utterly reasonable. In the US, it would take just one facility to deal with all 99 reactor waste streams.

I don't think we need to spend money and energy to transmute it by theses questionable laser schemes. Accelerator driven transmutation of waste was shown the dustbin a few decades ago, hopefully this will have the same fate. Please don't ruin our valuable trash.

Re: Zapping Nuclear Waste in Minutes Is Nobel Winner’s Holy Grail Quest

#60
post #47

Your periodic reminder that - despite the propaganda campaign run by nuclear advocates to make it seem like being anti-nuclear is to be anti-science - nuclear power remains massively expensive and even less safe than people think. Here's the most comprehensive peer-reviewed survey around: We summarize the results of a recent statistical analysis of 216 nuclear energy accidents and incidents (events). The dataset is t…

The problem is that people who are anti-nuclear are often also anti-coal and anti-fossil-fuel and anti-everything-that-actually-sustains-current-human-level-of-development. For those people, it has to be "clean renewables", with the speculation being that technology will fix all the issues with it. That ignores that maybe technology can also fix the issues with nuclear - and more readily so.

This is really not compelling. If you can't provide any more compelling evidence for nuclear vs clean energy improvements, why not gamble on the currently safer/cleaner bet?
Post reply on HN